Religion

[Cereal]

God forbid we try to educate each other.

[clyzm]

Actually, a lot of it is proven by observations.

The fact that the universe is expanding from a central point shows that there was a force that initially pushed everything away from that point. That observation leads us to the big bang theory.

If you have no actual evidence from the time, if you have no evidence that it happened, then it is a theory, not a fact.

[Cereal]

Everything is a theory, Cataclyzm, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

The evidence from the observations lead to the most likely scenario, that being the big bang.

[DarkKnight]

2. No. It just was. It didn't just suddenly generate, it's always been there.

Right, so this 'magical dust' that 'has always been there', to which I must not question it's origin, created all life in the universe?

Like I said, prove it. You have done little more then to amuse me.

[clyzm]

Everything is a theory, Cataclyzm, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

The evidence from the observations lead to the most likely scenario, that being the big bang.

No, things that can happen and can and have been experienced aren't theories. Those are evidential facts. Big Bang is just a theory, it isn't necessarily true but it isn't unlikely either.

[Cereal]

2. No. It just was. It didn't just suddenly generate, it's always been there.

Right, so this 'magical dust' that 'has always been there', to which I must not question it's origin, created all life in the universe?

Like I said, prove it. You have done little more then to amuse me.

Nice strawman argument, DK. If you can't find a better way to counter my side of the debate, why even try to debate in the first place?

You had no reason to call it "magical dust" other than to try to put doubt into anyone who may be persuaded by my side of the argument.

Yes, it has always been there, yes it will always be there. The matter didn't create life, life was created from the matter. I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to "prove" that my argument is no different from the argument for a God, when in fact it's nowhere near being similar.

Question the origin of the matter all you will, but you'll not find any more reasonable explanation other than that it has always been there. Is saying a god made it anymore reasonable? No. In fact that goes against occams razor. You must first invent the idea of a God to make that scenario even at all likely, and by that time, what's the point?

Go ahead and belittle and demean me all you want if that's what makes you feel good, if that's what makes you comfortable in your beliefs.


*EDIT* Cataclyzm: Under the definition for scientific theory, yes, everything is a theory. I'd rather not argue over semantics anymore, though, if that's ok with you.

[clyzm]

2. No. It just was. It didn't just suddenly generate, it's always been there.

Right, so this 'magical dust' that 'has always been there', to which I must not question it's origin, created all life in the universe?

Like I said, prove it. You have done little more then to amuse me.

Nice strawman argument, DK. If you can't find a better way to counter my side of the debate, why even try to debate in the first place?

You had no reason to call it "magical dust" other than to try to put doubt into anyone who may be persuaded by my side of the argument.

Yes, it has always been there, yes it will always be there. The matter didn't create life, life was created from the matter. I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to "prove" that my argument is no different from the argument for a God, when in fact it's nowhere near being similar.

Question the origin of the matter all you will, but you'll not find any more reasonable explanation other than that it has always been there. Is saying a god made it anymore reasonable? No. In fact that goes against occams razor. You must first invent the idea of a God to make that scenario even at all likely, and by that time, what's the point?

Go ahead and belittle and demean me all you want if that's what makes you feel good, if that's what makes you comfortable in your beliefs.

Hey man, just calm down. It's a friendly debate, no need to get tempers flaring. And I speak from experience.

[Cereal]

I am calm. Everyone always assumes I'm pissed off, it must be the way I type. In truth, I really very rarely get angry over something online. I just pointed out the fallacy in his argument, that's all.

[DarkKnight]

2. No. It just was. It didn't just suddenly generate, it's always been there.

Right, so this 'magical dust' that 'has always been there', to which I must not question it's origin, created all life in the universe?

Like I said, prove it. You have done little more then to amuse me.

Nice strawman argument, DK. If you can't find a better way to counter my side of the debate, why even try to debate in the first place?

I asked you a question, you failed to answer it. It is _that_ simple.

You had no reason to call it "magical dust" other than to try to put doubt into anyone who may be persuaded by my side of the argument.

No, I put it there because if it 'has always been there' without any explanation from you, then it must be magic.

Yes, it has always been there, yes it will always be there. The matter didn't create life, life was created from the matter. I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to "prove" that my argument is no different from the argument for a God, when in fact it's nowhere near being similar.

No, I'm not. I'm trying to get you to answer me.

Question the origin of the matter all you will, but you'll not find any more reasonable explanation other than that it has always been there. Is saying a god made it anymore reasonable? No. In fact that goes against occams razor. You must first invent the idea of a God to make that scenario even at all likely, and by that time, what's the point?

I am not looking for reasonable, I am looking for fact.

You are trying to convert me, remember? That is the goal after all isn't it? To educate the stupid masses?

Go ahead and belittle and demean me all you want if that's what makes you feel good, if that's what makes you comfortable in your beliefs.

And you have again avoid the obligation to answer me, dammit.

[Cereal]

Convert? Hardly. What is your problem, DK? I answered your question, I don't know what you want. And of COURSE it isn't magic, again you're just trying to belittle me. Magic doesn't exist and I obviously don't believe in it.


What the hell can I convert you to, Atheism? I'm just trying to educate you on a scientific theory, you've got the wrong idea completely.


I wonder, what is YOUR theory on the origin of the universe, and why is it any less silly than mine?

[clyzm]

I find the big bang theory plausible, but points like Stevie's makes me look at it more doubtfully.

[Cereal]

Because it can't be flat out proven with infallible evidence? What can?

[clyzm]

Because it can't be flat out proven with infallible evidence? What can?

Everything that happened after history (man wrote).

[Cereal]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I'm really tired right now, maybe I just read your sentence wrong. Are you saying recorded history is proven? No..if you want to get technical every account of everything that has ever happened could be wrong. Of course I don't BELIEVE it's wrong, but the evidence for it certainly isn't infallible.

This is going to make me seem so silly to people who don't understand what I'm trying to say.

[clyzm]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I'm really tired right now, maybe I just read your sentence wrong. Are you saying recorded history is proven? No..if you want to get technical every account of everything that has ever happened could be wrong. Of course I don't BELIEVE it's wrong, but the evidence for it certainly isn't infallible.

This is going to make me seem so silly to people who don't understand what I'm trying to say.

Well, think about it. If no one experiences it, how can it be true?

[Cereal]

Well, think about it. If no one experiences it, how can it be true?

The fact that we're here is evidence enough that we came from somewhere. Be it that we were created by a god, or mutated from ancient bacterium, or that we exist in some aliens dream world. We're here, so that proves SOMETHING happened. It's only a matter of which scenario is the most likely.

[clyzm]

Well, think about it. If no one experiences it, how can it be true?

The fact that we're here is evidence enough that we came from somewhere. Be it that we were created by a god, or mutated from ancient bacterium, or that we exist in some aliens dream world. We're here, so that proves SOMETHING happened. It's only a matter of which scenario is the most likely.

How is that relevant to Big Bang theory?

[xProtocol Rain]

Me personally I don't believe in such things as higher beings, or one person creating meals for millions of people with just one fish and a couple loafs of bread. Things like that I find impossible. But what if there is a higher being though? You can’t help but wonder at times. But heaven and hell? I don't believe any of the two exist. When you die you don't go anywhere, cant see anything, and you cant hear anything. You just lay their, as your body decomposes and becomes one with the earth over time eventually.

Now maybe a person named Jesus or God (heaven forbid if your parents name you God of all the other possible names available) did exist. But the two having supernatural abilities? Doubtful. But we had to have been put on the earth for a reason. So maybe something supernatural is behind it. Not quite sure, but I think its something defiantly worth looking into don't you guys think?

Religion = Instant fail

If you actually read the bible you notice its really REALLY fucking ridiculous that people actually take that shit serious,its just a bloody book,a shitty one at that,Science is the only "Real" way to belive in,cause its the only real solution that has any evidence for it at all,unlike most religions which are based on storys,people,and places from thousands of years ago that were never found,the only religions i actually care for are

Bhuddism
Egyptian Gods
Greek Gods
Satanic

Besides that i think its all bull-shit,and religion is a pretty shitty thing,mostly the christian religion is the worst,cause they try to control everything,Tv,what you can do,how you think,what "God" says is bad has to be removed,like all those ugly bitches you'd never fuck in a million years protesting abortion clinics,they're fucked,and in Canada here theres a display where human body's have been injected with plastic liqiud sorta stuff so you can see all the parts of the body,cause its a real body plasticized,and a stupid priest goes off and says "Well thats not what god intended the body for" fucking ridiculous,so pretty much,i dont mind religion but i fuckin hate christians cause unlike every other religion they cant just go about they're biseness and let everyone do they're thing they gotta try and contol everything like the bastards they are,and sorry if i offend and christians people but fuck your religion,you can belive god all you want but keep it to your fuckin self bastards!

You seem to misunderstand that ranting is not flaming, now chill out before you get warned..

[~Hy[ß]rid~]

Me personally I don't believe in such things as higher beings, or one person creating meals for millions of people with just one fish and a couple loafs of bread. Things like that I find impossible. But what if there is a higher being though? You can’t help but wonder at times. But heaven and hell? I don't believe any of the two exist. When you die you don't go anywhere, cant see anything, and you cant hear anything. You just lay their, as your body decomposes and becomes one with the earth over time eventually.

Now maybe a person named Jesus or God (heaven forbid if your parents name you God of all the other possible names available) did exist. But the two having supernatural abilities? Doubtful. But we had to have been put on the earth for a reason. So maybe something supernatural is behind it. Not quite sure, but I think its something defiantly worth looking into don't you guys think?

Religion = Instant fail

If you actually read the bible you notice its really REALLY fucking ridiculous that people actually take that shit serious,its just a bloody book,a shitty one at that,Science is the only "Real" way to belive in,cause its the only real solution that has any evidence for it at all,unlike most religions which are based on storys,people,and places from thousands of years ago that were never found,the only religions i actually care for are

Bhuddism
Egyptian Gods
Greek Gods
Satanic

Besides that i think its all bull-shit,and religion is a pretty shitty thing,mostly the christian religion is the worst,cause they try to control everything,Tv,what you can do,how you think,what "God" says is bad has to be removed,like all those ugly bitches you'd never fuck in a million years protesting abortion clinics,they're fucked,and in Canada here theres a display where human body's have been injected with plastic liqiud sorta stuff so you can see all the parts of the body,cause its a real body plasticized,and a stupid priest goes off and says "Well thats not what god intended the body for" fucking ridiculous,so pretty much,i dont mind religion but i fuckin hate christians cause unlike every other religion they cant just go about they're biseness and let everyone do they're thing they gotta try and contol everything like the bastards they are,and sorry if i offend and christians people but fuck your religion,you can belive god all you want but keep it to your fuckin self bastards!

You seem to misunderstand that ranting is not flaming, now chill out before you get warned..

My beliefs exactly. I do wonder soemtimes about some unexplained events, but if there is something out there, it has nothing to do with jesus.

But I swing more towards, you die. Thats it. Dead, gone, can't see, hear or smell.

[clyzm]

That's what's called a inevitable outcome. No heaven, no hell. No purgatory. Just.... death.

[Mastakilla]

Though it's confusing to think about it, thinking about if you wont get bored and shit

No seriously, that gives me an headache, what the hell should you do when you die

[clyzm]

Though it's confusing to think about it, thinking about if you wont get bored and shit

No seriously, that gives me an headache, what the hell should you do when you die

When you die you die. That's it.

[Mastakilla]

Though it's confusing to think about it, thinking about if you wont get bored and shit

No seriously, that gives me an headache, what the hell should you do when you die

When you die you die. That's it.

Well in that case I'm very stupid, because I just can't get it... Admit it's confusing! You're just gone... wtf.

[clyzm]

Though it's confusing to think about it, thinking about if you wont get bored and shit

No seriously, that gives me an headache, what the hell should you do when you die

When you die you die. That's it.

Well in that case I'm very stupid, because I just can't get it... Admit it's confusing! You're just gone... wtf.

Not confusing at all.

You die.

You stop existing.

You think no more.

[Krieg]

God forbid

Some troo kvlt metalcore there !! roflmao

[Lazer]

2. No. It just was. It didn't just suddenly generate, it's always been there.

Right, so this 'magical dust' that 'has always been there', to which I must not question it's origin, created all life in the universe?

Like I said, prove it. You have done little more then to amuse me.

Nice strawman argument, DK. If you can't find a better way to counter my side of the debate, why even try to debate in the first place?

I asked you a question, you failed to answer it. It is _that_ simple.

You had no reason to call it "magical dust" other than to try to put doubt into anyone who may be persuaded by my side of the argument.

No, I put it there because if it 'has always been there' without any explanation from you, then it must be magic.

Yes, it has always been there, yes it will always be there. The matter didn't create life, life was created from the matter. I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to "prove" that my argument is no different from the argument for a God, when in fact it's nowhere near being similar.

No, I'm not. I'm trying to get you to answer me.

Question the origin of the matter all you will, but you'll not find any more reasonable explanation other than that it has always been there. Is saying a god made it anymore reasonable? No. In fact that goes against occams razor. You must first invent the idea of a God to make that scenario even at all likely, and by that time, what's the point?

I am not looking for reasonable, I am looking for fact.

You are trying to convert me, remember? That is the goal after all isn't it? To educate the stupid masses?

Go ahead and belittle and demean me all you want if that's what makes you feel good, if that's what makes you comfortable in your beliefs.

And you have again avoid the obligation to answer me, dammit.

oh no, he's back! at least it'll make derek very happy. think hes getting bored arguing with messiah.

[Cereal]

Well, think about it. If no one experiences it, how can it be true?

The fact that we're here is evidence enough that we came from somewhere. Be it that we were created by a god, or mutated from ancient bacterium, or that we exist in some aliens dream world. We're here, so that proves SOMETHING happened. It's only a matter of which scenario is the most likely.

How is that relevant to Big Bang theory?

I was making an example. You said if something isn't experienced by people then it's unlikely that it's true.(unless I read that completely wrong) I don't know anyone who experienced the beginning of life, but the fact that we're here proves there was a beginning.

It goes hand in hand with what we were talking about earlier. The fact that the universe here proves it had a beginning. It's just a matter of which scenario is the most likely, because with the technology we have now neither can be proven.


To Mastakilla: According to the bible you don't get bored in heaven. I know that's hard to understand, but essentially all negative human emotions are removed from you, and you're eternally happy. As to what happens in the no afterlife scenario: Think of it like this.. do you remember what it was like before you were born? No? That's how it is after you die. That's the simplest way I can explain it.

[MrBlackDX]

I loved the film "Da Vinci Code" (i know its based off a book)

Basically im a Christian, or advanced, a person who believes in their own personalised religion which is based upon the same generic principles of Christianity, (im not 100% on my own beliefs). But the whole point of what i believe in is to not really decide what is right and what is wrong at this stage in my life, im 20, not fucking 82, ive got 60 years left to make up my mind on Jay's sexuality.

The reason i loved the film was for its plausible theory against the divinity of Jesus, granted some of it was far fetch, but the whole point was that there was this point layed down, with pretty good evidence to back it up.

Things which question my beliefs with reasonable back-up make me think twice about my beliefs in the first place. The whole point of that film re-affirmed my dislike for Church's and other groups of "believers" who devotingly follow some guy in a robe and then have to cough up 10 bone each at the end of the service.

All this topic has shown me is that 20 kids on this forum wanna blame religion for whatever reasons and then hide behind science because "science is fact, science is pure, science is true" i can scientifically prove that the reason you get some people kicking the shit out of others in Bristol city centre on a Friday night is not because Jesus walked on water or Tom Cruise is an alien, but generally because 12 pints of Stella doesnt react well with their nervous system.

What I just said there about the booze, is a theory, I can't be arsed to go out and prove it, I like my face and my pay cheque. However, your probably either slightly agreeing with that statement and maybe you found it a little funny, hell, me putting little jokes which make you laugh has a mental tendency to make yourselves sub-conciously vere towards believing my theory anyway. That or your are still absolutely insulted that i said "im a Christian".

There are some pretty good debaters on this forum, hell i started liking this topic when DK finished his 3 month long barbie to come join us again, not because of what hes arguing for, but how he argues. Cereal is at least trying to do a good job of proving his point, thumbs up. Its just the people who are "OMG I HATE SHU GOD LOZL" who make me laugh at their pitiful efforts to get away from "the crowd" "the masses" "the mob", because they want to be different, and yet they fit quite nicely in that section of not really thinking on both sides of the coin before they blurt out the bs.

I love rant sections, 1, no one listens to me anyway so i can get a lot of stress out from work by typing up some big pile of wank, 2, i get to express my opinion, to what i would have hoped to be people on my level, (my level being people who think similar to me, not me trying to say, "I IZ ON LEVEL 9, SHU IZ LEVEL 2, I IZ SMARDER DAN SHU LOZL" and 3, i have a prolonged excuse to listen to Dark Side of the Moon for the 72nd time

[Chococat]

Urgh, I hate religious debates as they eventually turn into flaming sooner or later. Nothing ever comes out of it either.

[MrBlackDX]

Urgh, I hate religious debates as they eventually turn into flaming sooner or later. Nothing ever comes out of it either.

They usually start with flaming as well