Respect your elders (assuming all elders are a well of knowledge)

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Respect your elders (assuming all elders are a well of knowledge)

Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 04, 13 12:02 am

No. Do not respect your elders unless they have spent their life educating themselves, and challenging their own opinions. I am personally sick of others factoring age into discussion. It doesn't matter what age someone is, rather than HOW EDUCATED that person is on the TOPIC.


For example, I can live my entire life with a shit job, marry the next woman I meet, not take care of myself, and watch reality TV shows, and not educate myself at ALL. Kids are repeatedly told to respect their elders, and WHY? Seriously, why?! Why should I care about the opinions of a man (lets use "Bob" as an example) who didn't educate himself on anything, can't even take care of himself, and still whines about simple issues he's having.


The same could be said in comparison to the young. I once met a 12 year old kid who was OBSESSED with politics. Every president, prime minister, the good, the bad, the questionable. Even though this kid is 12, he "KNEW HIS SHIT."


I don't respect Bob intellectually at all (albeit he could be a nice dude). It's unfortunate he didn't have any influential factor in his life that would lead him down an educated path. If he ever chose to educate himself, then I would love to talk.


I respect the 12 year old kid. He knows more about 'spoken subject' than 200 Bob's combined.


This is why the "age" factor is generally irreverent. It isn't HOW old you are, rather than what one spends their time doing.
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Postby ynnaD » Fri Oct 04, 13 1:08 am

Reminds me of my project supervisor at Uni, he was a typical example of what i find wrong with cetain parts of the education sector today, a man whose been in his job for so long, he feels like his age and title alone excuses him from the fact he used outdated techniques and forgave him from being an asshole.
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Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 04, 13 1:27 am

ynnaD wrote:Reminds me of my project supervisor at Uni, he was a typical example of what i find wrong with cetain parts of the education sector today, a man whose been in his job for so long, he feels like his age and title alone excuses him from the fact he used outdated techniques and forgave him from being an asshole.


Haha yeah man, the "qualification" card ALWAYS makes me laugh. Yes, I understand you are 46 years of age, and have qualifications in this field... HOWEVER, would you mind explaining to me WHY [Insert discussion point here], and NOT answer the question with your qualifications? If you truly have those qualifications, why not prove it using the knowledge you have learned?

e.g. No, an apple does not have a gravitational pull [down] at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 because "YOU HAVE YOUR MASTERS IN PHYSICS."

It falls at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 because Newton discovered that if, [insert long discussion backed with Newton's studies], etc.


My brother knows someone with a PhD in Quantum physics, and while in debate over a topic (nothing to do with quantum btw), others started commenting with "you know he DOES have a PhD in Quantum." To which I replied with:

"That's great. Too bad it won't help him with environmentalist-sociology."

My brother basically caught him changing the fabrication of the argument, and posting opinions with no information to back it. After about 50 comments in the post the argument came to and end, and Mr.PhD was called-out numerous times being blatantly wrong.
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Postby Psychotic » Fri Oct 04, 13 1:59 am

"Respect is earned, not given."

The argument is that the elderly have already earned their respect through the trials and tribulations made within their life. Personally, until a man has earned my respect, he gets nothing.

It's not about challenging ones opinions or being educated. There are plenty of ignorant people in the world. Some of my friends have been less educated in certain areas than I or have chosen not to challenge themselves or their beliefs, and yet I still respect them.

A man does not have to be on an even footing as I for him to earn my respect.

Loyalty and honesty, for example, are things I take pride in. These are traits I respect people for, and neither of these require a man to know about the government he works for or the world he lives in.
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Postby clyzm » Fri Oct 04, 13 2:10 am

Respect everybody, every living thing, even plants, for we all play a role in the ecosystem
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Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 04, 13 2:31 am

Magniir wrote:"Respect is earned, not given."

The argument is that the elderly have already earned their respect through the trials and tribulations made within their life. Personally, until a man has earned my respect, he gets nothing.

It's not about challenging ones opinions or being educated. There are plenty of ignorant people in the world. Some of my friends have been less educated in certain areas than I or have chosen not to challenge themselves or their beliefs, and yet I still respect them.

A man does not have to be on an even footing as I for him to earn my respect.

Loyalty and honesty, for example, are things I take pride in. These are traits I respect people for, and neither of these require a man to know about the government he works for or the world he lives in.


I rephrased the topic. I should have been more specific, so I apologize about that.


I am not saying that I do not respect other qualities of people. I respect many things about numerous sorts of people. This topic is simply about others respecting the outlook seniors provide based on age alone, and not for the proper knowledge they exert with explanation to back it.


If it were about respecting other components of people: I'm the same way, Mag. I knew a dude who fought his way through being abused in a fucked up childhood, and he came out of it fine. He knew it wasn't normal, and that he didn't want his kids to experience the same thing. He came out on top, not willing to fall into the same category of fate his parents did, and I respect him for fighting through it, and being the great guy he is today. He COULD have chose the easy way out, or gotten into crime, but he didn't, and that alone is pretty awesome.
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Postby Siva » Fri Oct 04, 13 11:19 am

I agree with Aidan m8

most old people don't know shit, and a lot of them grow lazy. why learn how to computer when you can call your grandson/neighbour kid to do it for you
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Postby Psychotic » Fri Oct 04, 13 12:27 pm

I never respected an old man simply because they were old. I respect my grandparents because they were my family, but not because they inherently smarter or older than I. I use old people as a learning experience, but some really are ignorant.

That said, wisdom does tend to come with age only because experience comes with age (which is what wisdom comes from). Not all elderly are stupid, and not all deserve my respect.

To put it as brief as I can (which is not that brief, as we all know): The concept of "respect your elders" alone is not one I believe in, regardless of why you shouldn't.

People say we should because they're old when what they tend to mean is because they're experienced, and we should respect such wisdom (and we should, frankly; it would do the world a lot to be wiser).

I like to think I'm wise, but that garners me no more respect than if I wasn't, so why should I bother giving it to an elderly who has proven nothing to me?
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Postby Mastakilla » Fri Oct 04, 13 1:02 pm

clyzm wrote:Respect everybody, every living thing, even plants, for we all play a role in the ecosystem


This

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Postby Psychotic » Fri Oct 04, 13 2:04 pm

This reminds me of Micromega, by Voltaire (and a very recommended read by anyone who does not inflate their own worth).

We are all meaningless specks of dust in the cosmic wasteland of the universe. The meaning of everything is literally nothing. As much as one plant does to sustain my own life (and I respect plants because of such), in the end, it is as meaningless as I.

It is born. It lives. It dies. In years to come it will birth a legacy, and that two shall live and die. It will be forgotten.

Quite frankly, respect is meaningless in the end. It's a measure of ones vanity over ones self, because as much as we respect a man of our own volition, we (as a whole) also expect or demand respect to be given to us for trivial actions.

Of course, I also believe that every living thing is vain to some degree, and that is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

This is not to say that respect is not a valid trait, just that many people use it as an arbitrary measure of ones worth.
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Postby clyzm » Fri Oct 04, 13 6:42 pm

Magniir wrote:This reminds me of Micromega, by Voltaire (and a very recommended read by anyone who does not inflate their own worth).

We are all meaningless specks of dust in the cosmic wasteland of the universe. The meaning of everything is literally nothing. As much as one plant does to sustain my own life (and I respect plants because of such), in the end, it is as meaningless as I.

It is born. It lives. It dies. In years to come it will birth a legacy, and that two shall live and die. It will be forgotten.

Quite frankly, respect is meaningless in the end. It's a measure of ones vanity over ones self, because as much as we respect a man of our own volition, we (as a whole) also expect or demand respect to be given to us for trivial actions.

Of course, I also believe that every living thing is vain to some degree, and that is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

This is not to say that respect is not a valid trait, just that many people use it as an arbitrary measure of ones worth.


Shades of nihilism there
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Postby Psychotic » Sat Oct 05, 13 1:57 am

clyzm wrote:
Magniir wrote:This reminds me of Micromega, by Voltaire (and a very recommended read by anyone who does not inflate their own worth).

We are all meaningless specks of dust in the cosmic wasteland of the universe. The meaning of everything is literally nothing. As much as one plant does to sustain my own life (and I respect plants because of such), in the end, it is as meaningless as I.

It is born. It lives. It dies. In years to come it will birth a legacy, and that two shall live and die. It will be forgotten.

Quite frankly, respect is meaningless in the end. It's a measure of ones vanity over ones self, because as much as we respect a man of our own volition, we (as a whole) also expect or demand respect to be given to us for trivial actions.

Of course, I also believe that every living thing is vain to some degree, and that is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

This is not to say that respect is not a valid trait, just that many people use it as an arbitrary measure of ones worth.


Shades of nihilism there


Well, Voltaire was pretty much a nihilist.

I don't mind the concept of life having no objective meaning, since I was always of the belief we create said meaning ourselves. If not, then what's it all for?

I had always hoped that when I die I would find out all the answers. I don't necessarily have faith that this would happen, nor any faith in a God or a supposed afterlife, I simply feel there has to be more than "Born. Live. Die.".

But enough about that. That's rather off-topic, I simply feel that respect is ultimately meaningless in the concept most people use it for, particularly those who demand it, rather than wanting to earn it.
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Postby synthetic » Sat Oct 05, 13 5:28 am

Treat the elders with respect. Why? Because they definitely do have more experience with life than you. Certainly many of them will in time - short or long - display signs of early onset of dementia or routine-related narrow-mindedness that could be confused for dementia, but that does not mean you have to behave like a punk in the presence of elders.

However, respect the elders if you have reason to.

Two different things, respecting or treating with respect, and with any elder the latter is at least due.


Respect itself is an important part of coexistence, regardless of any clever escapism-fuelled philosophical sentiments that an occasional specimen may come up with.
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Postby Psychotic » Sat Oct 05, 13 8:48 am

synthetic wrote:Two different things, respecting or treating with respect, and with any elder the latter is at least due.


My argument is that the eldery are no more deserving of my respect as you are. That is to say that they deserve respect but so do you and I.

Unless someone has proven to us otherwise, we all deserve to be treated fairly and with the same level of respect we give others, but that does not mean the elderly deserve to be put on a pedastal and respected more-so.

I will not respect an old man simply because he has lived longer and experienced more, I will respect him because I respect others. I have experienced a lot, as well, so why do I deserve less respect because I am younger?
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Postby Siva » Sat Oct 05, 13 9:20 am

Let me get Socratic all up in this bitch.

On the face of the matter we have only one factor, age. So the question we must ask ourselves is whether age is a relevant factor into that which garners respect in men. If we look at the relationship between adult and child, age only brings with it the air of authority, so I believe if we were to continue down the route of age equalling respect, we would be looking in the wrong place.

So what qualities do the old possess that the young do not, or at least, have more of that the young do not. Naturally we arrive at wisdom, which is a valuable thing in and of itself. However, before I continue I would like to raise some questions;

Is it just to proffer false respect in the hopes of gaining wisdom? (Perhaps so one might be respected oneself?)
Should we respect them for their wisdom alone, or for their sharing of their wisdom? Or for their respect shown toward you? Or a combination of the above?
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Postby Clancy Stein » Mon Oct 07, 13 7:46 am

Not everyone deserves your respect, that's really an internal distinction you make within yourself towards a subject. Consideration, or rather, courtesy is something we owe to each other. Respect is an earned privilege distinguished between minds which acknowledge eachother.
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Postby synthetic » Mon Oct 07, 13 10:24 am

Clancy describes one form of respect among many, but in that sense what he says is undeniably true.

The word respect is often also applied to specific matters or topics, such as expertise in certain field. You say you respect that guy's skills. They may be superior to yours or something you lack altogether. That, too, is respect.

Elders deserve respect and expect respect, but there are common misconceptions about what that entails. Elders are elder, meaning they have accumulated more experience with life, existence. Time is something that sets this in stone. Should one expect that deserved and expected respect to apply to two previous variants? No, but not to respect would mean not to learn and thus decrease your chances of success, survival.
This does not mean an elder is definitely an expect carpenter or shares your views on global politics.

Basically, we see that the word respect is a rather loose word used in fairly relaxed way while it entails something quite important.

I think that along with the concept of respect being all over the place this respect the elders thing is also used in the society to distribute resources according to individuals strength and vitality. If you offer a seat to the elder in bus its often described as an act of respect due, where in reality it is based on stamina and strength. Such an act does have traces leading back to the concept of respect (among other things) however, or we wouldn't give a shit about their survival.
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Postby Psychotic » Mon Oct 07, 13 11:18 am

Respect is like art. Subjective as fuck, has a lot of meaning to some and a lack of substance to others.
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Postby Aidan » Mon Oct 07, 13 9:44 pm

There are variants. There are many different things to respect in people, but there are also fundamentals.


To be optimistic, and nice to people (no matter the situation) is the absolute basic in my books. I will generally respect/admire someone for this alone. HOWEVER, if this person were to start running their uneducated mouths about something political (per say), I would not respect that opinion (because I know inside and out, that their opinion is not valid, and/or has no proper support).


So for instance, I may not respect certain aspects of people, but am aware the same applies to others 'respecting' me. Although I may not respect these certain aspects, it does not mean I am a "punk." It only means I have my own justified opinion (with proper support) that makes logical sense. I used to be 'that guy' who often ran his mouth about a subject he was uneducated on, but eventually realized how stupid that is/waste of time, and therefore educated myself on the subject I lacked knowledge in. If I don't know enough about a subject, I won't bother debating it.


Magniir wrote:Respect is like art. Subjective as fuck, has a lot of meaning to some and a lack of substance to others.


Life is subjective. It means nothing unless discovered eventually (if possible). There is no right or wrong. No black, no white. Just grey. The premise of "Right and Wrong," is a fabrication of mankind.

I'd say that respect is more or less appreciation of one's intellect, at any positive degree.
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