Unreal to Deus Ex Conversion Project *NEW Updates April 2012*

[Lurker]

Hi, this is Lurker again.

I've recently noticed in another topic here that there seem to be other mappers out there who convert maps from old Unreal'98 or UT'99 to Deus Ex 1.

Well, I've been thinking about such a project for years too. Whenever I have time I replay Epic's original Unreal singleplayer and multiplayer maps and those of the Return to Na Pali Addon aswell to check for those special environments which could work well with the atmosphere of Deus Ex and which could be used as a base to extend on those maps and add DX-related stuff.

I'm a fan of catacomb levels, underground tunnels, caves. Old Unreal had some of those environments. It had also interiors and exteriors of castles which I like too!

To cut a long story short, here's a latest screenshot of my current U1 to DX1 conversion on my moddb profile:

Dasa Cellars (Screenshot of Demo map)
http://www.moddb.com/members/lurker2011 ... on-project

Epic's original name in this singleplayer map reads "Dasa Cellars at Mountain Pass". This is the level which takes place after the player passes over a bridge through a narrow mountain pass and enters the cellars inside the mountain. So this is an interior map basically. Since I'm a guy from Germany I looked up the word "Cellars". It means Keller in german (pretty similar wording), which actually translates to basement in modern times. Therefore the map is like the basement of a castle with some catacomb-style parts thrown into it. I thought this map could well work in Deus Ex since it had Paris Catacombs. And this is one of my favorite DX maps.

[Lurker]

Also, let me post something about copyright issues since some people in the other topic had concerns about that...

First of all, if you guys convert original maps from Unreal or Unreal Tournament to Deus Ex, such as in my case, you should not release or publically upload any maps of the project until it is complete and you got permission from Epic that you can release a mod with their maps included! This is very important (!), because many such projects simply had to be cancelled in the past, because there were complaints about copyright infringement. I know about such project in which a team of mappers created a UT mod which included converted maps from Undying, another game based on Unreal Engine 1. They had to cancel it and it was never released. Probably because they didn't get any permission from the Undying developers.

So that's why I decided to only release preview screenshots of my U1 to DX1 project at this stage.

Second, if you intend to convert custom U1 or UT multiplayer maps to Deus Ex which were made by other mappers then you have some options of freedom, but you have to pay close attention! Let me explain...

In the old days most of the Unreal mappers put a textfile with their maps which also included a copyright disclaimer. THIS is where you should pay attention!

Here's an example of the textfile put with DmSinfonia, a custom and popular Unreal'98 multiplayer map:

Code: Select all

Title                   : Sinfonia
Version                 : 1.0
Release Date            : 25/6/98
Filename                : marty2.zip
Author                  : Marty Howe
Email Address           : marty@sympac.com.au
Web Page                :
Description             : Unreal Deathmatch Map

...

Extended description:
--------------------

Unreal DM map aboard a space cruiser.

Copyright / Permissions
-----------------------
This level is copyrighted by Marty Howe 1998.

[b]Authors may NOT use this level as a base to build additional levels.[/b]

You are NOT allowed to commercially exploit this level, i.e. put it on a CD
or any other electronic medium that is sold for money without my explicit
permission!

You MAY distribute this UNR through any electronic network (internet,
FIDO, local BBS etc.), provided you include this file and leave the archive
intact.

The line which I marked bold is the key in this case. This author does NOT allow his map/level to be used as a base for other maps. This also applies to conversions into other Unreal-based games, such as Deus Ex. So you should avoid converting maps like these, because the original author could be pissed off. Ofcourse you can always try to contact the original author and ask for permission. But you should not count on that, since most of the Unreal deathmatch maps are from 1998-1999. They are 12-14 years old and the websites and emails of the originals authors, which are provided in the textfiles, probably don't exist anymore. I know it, because I make experiences like these all the time.

Alright. So what about Unreal deathmatch maps which are allowed to be used as base for own projects? You won't find many in the Unreal and Unreal Tournament community, but there are some...

Here's an example of the textfile put with DmSpeedMine, one of those lesser known Unreal deathmatch maps:

Code: Select all

===========================================================
Basic Info:
===========================================================
Title:         Speed Mine
Version:      1.0
Release Date:      7/28/1999
Author:         -=OuT=-
Email:         boom@cableone.net
Recommended Players:   2-4

Additional Credits to:   UnrealEd.net: great tutorials.  :-D

===========================================================
Comments:
===========================================================
This is a small level I made because I wanted a fast-paced
map that ran well on my aged machine and was suitable for
the two player games my friends and I play so often on my
micro two computer LAN.  It gets extremely crazy with four
players, and that's the way I prefer to play it.  It has
almost zero eye candy, but It plays fast as hell, and that's
how I like em'.

-=OuT=-

===========================================================
Copyrights/Permissions:
===========================================================
[b]Go ahead and do whatever you want with this, but give me
credit somewhere.[/b]  If you're going to use it in a way that
you'll gain money from it (putting it on a compilation CD
or something like that) let me know so I can brag to my
friends and whatnot.

Again I marked the key phrase in bold. So this author allows his map to be used as a base to build own maps (to convert them to Deus Ex in our case), as long as you credit his name.

That's it for copyright issue.

Last note: Always read the textfiles which authors put with their maps! As I mentioned before, you won't find many U1 or UT maps which allow other mappers to use in own projects, but there are a few out there. You just need to dig them.

P.S. I'm currently converting DmSpeedMine to Deus Ex and I will upload it some time during this week. Check this topic again if you are interested to get the map. It's a small and simple map, but with a nice flow, so it doesn't take so much time to convert to DXMP......

[Poor]

Why would anyone take copywrites for Unreal maps seriously? Especially for ones that are 14 years old. I really doubt someone would care a map they made 14 years ago was converted for DXMP. And if they did take issue with it (only a jackass would), what are they going to do? Sue you?

[Lurker]

Why would anyone take copywrites for Unreal maps seriously? Especially for ones that are 14 years old. I really doubt someone would care a map they made 14 years ago was converted for DXMP. And if they did take issue with it (only a jackass would), what are they going to do? Sue you?

Yeah, I asked myself the same questions while browsing and replaying hundreds of old custom Unreal maps recently. I think most of the old authors wouldn't mind and even be proud when someone converted their very old maps to a more advanced game and made them look high quality with new textures, additional areas and stuff. Agreed.

I'm not so sure about Epic, however. History has shown that commercial game companies take copyright very seriously like people in the music and movies industry. As I said in my previous post, I better not release any of the original U1 and UT'99 maps until I'm 100% sure that Epic are cool with that. I know that DmDeck16 has been converted a thousand times by many authors to various Unreal games and also for Deus Ex. Epic didn't mind. But who knows how they react when someone converted their singleplayer maps and even used their texture art, music and sound effects. Might be a problem for them. You never know.

By the way, according to international copyright law a work of art is copyrighted until the author of the art is dead for 80 years or something. So maybe in 150 years when all devs from Epic are dead for 80 years you can rip their entire games. But we won't live long enough to experience that moment.

[James]

I don't think anyone should ever copyprotect their maps unless they release source afterwards or it relies on a mod that requires 'security' inside of the map itself e.g.; admin password. Sure there's also protecting it against knockoff duplicates, but there's always the community of videogames to strike out against that, copyright helps against it too.

Keeping stuff open sourced as much as possible helps people to learn. That's my simple argument.

edit: Not entirely relating to the above posts, but just how I feel anyway.

[~ô¿ô~Nobody~]

Sure there's also protecting it against knockoff duplicates, but there's always the community of videogames to strike out against that, copyright helps against it too.

Unfortunately that doesn't count for the DXMP community.

[Kalman11]

I'd like to help, but I'm working on too much maps, and I think I'll forgot it, if I don't make progress in every week

[James]

Unfortunately that doesn't count for the DXMP community.

No, fortunately it does. I've always seemed to think that it's just that we've been too apathetic, lazy and paranoid with the issue of protected and open source releases. Sure it didn't help with the years of dysfunctional conflictions with our lovely community's spliter cesspools but I like to think that we've all done a bad job except for Alex's scripting society and the MTL source code forum days.

There's less excuses for it in DXMP, especially with a community this small.

edit:

Code: Select all

19:27 - ★✔啊 NESTEA THE STALLION 啊✔★: in reply to your shit
19:27 - ★✔啊 NESTEA THE STALLION 啊✔★: yes the map protection tool was stupid
19:27 - ★✔啊 NESTEA THE STALLION 啊✔★: but obviously anticheat needs to be protected
19:27 - ★✔啊 NESTEA THE STALLION 啊✔★: (and rather not handled by a dejavu)
19:28 - Surprise!: of course
19:28 - Surprise!: my argument isnt about anti cheat
19:28 - ★✔啊 NESTEA THE STALLION 啊✔★: you might wanna clear that up

I've already addressed my thoughts on protected anti cheat somewhere, for obvious reasons I endorse it. I just like open source stuff on lesser stuff like maps and content mods.

[atrey65789]

Hey lol That was my topic lol and are you wanting people to help you or what? lol Cause I have a few converted maps.

[Lurker]

Keeping stuff open sourced as much as possible helps people to learn. That's my simple argument.

edit: Not entirely relating to the above posts, but just how I feel anyway

As you said, James.. You made some valid points, but they are unrelated to my topic. I am talking about old Unreal maps from 1998-1999 with copyright disclaimers in which authors in the past stated that they don't want their maps being used as base for own projects and the question whether to ignore those copyright disclaimers in 2012 or not. I'm not talking about copyprotecting professional DXMP or singlerplayer maps which you made in these days. That's an entirely different issue.

As far as your argument goes, I agree and disagree with you at the same time..

I agree that old Unreal'98 and UT'99 maps should not be protected anymore and can be used in 2012 for own projects. But I disagree with you about not copyprotecting maps and mods from your latest projects. As you may noticed, I protected my last publically and professionally released DXMP_Smuggler_Rooms in 2011 with the Map Protection Tool, so people are not able to load it in UnrealEd and re-edit it without crashing UnrealEd. I do this, not because of copyright (the original smuggler map is not entirely mine anyway), but because of noobs. I don't want noobs to load in my carefully optimized and finished maps, change or add some stuff in an unproper way, then rebuild it and run those maps on their servers again with my name on it. Ofcourse if some professional mapper out there is interested to extend or add cool stuff to my existing DXMP maps he/she can always contact me and ask for my permission to release the unprotected versions of my maps.

But those are two different topics, as I said above, James. In the case of old U1/UT maps being used as a base for projects today, copyrights should not be a drawback, because we experienced mappers make those old maps better-looking and more advanced anyway. So it's not a degrade but an upgrade for those maps.

This is different from the other case I mentioned in which you copyprotect and "editprotect" your newly released maps with the Map Protection Tool to avoid noobs rebuilding it. In this particular case I go with copyprotect. In other case no.

[Lurker]

Hey lol That was my topic lol and are you wanting people to help you or what? lol Cause I have a few converted maps.

Map Conversion from one Unreal game to another is an oldtimer topic which exists since Unreal 1 and Unreal Tournament 1999 were released. I don't think that anyone "owns" such a topic. But hey, if you have a patent for those kind of topics then let me know.

And no thanks, I don't need any help in UnrealEd and can create, convert and edit maps pretty well on my own. There is nothing you could help me out with, unless you've made some cool high-quality 3d models for DX1 which I could use as templates to decorate my maps with.

This topic is used to show screenshots and post uploads of my projects and maps which I'm converting from U1 to DX1 .......

If you have converted maps then why don't you release and post them here in this forum? I would certainly like to see them and compare your conversion skills to mine...

[atrey65789]

Yeah, I can do that BUT... Do you have The Textures?

[Lurker]

Yeah, I can do that BUT... Do you have The Textures?

I have, but I do not convert Unreal maps with all textures. I only take certain interesting textures from Unreal and use them in Deus Ex, and photoshop them to make them better looking. For example, for my Dasa Cellars conversion I took some U1 textures and edited them for DX1, added a nice bump map effect and detail to it and stuff like that.

Because I think it makes more sense to replace converted Unreal maps with the original Deus Ex textures. Thanks to texture replacement packs like New Vision by DaveW any DX1 map can look very good these days. And another reason is that DX fans don't want to download converted maps with megabytes or even gigabytes of additional textures. It is always wise to replace surfaces in the converted maps with DX textures as much as possible. This is also a wise choice, because it gives the maps a more Deus Ex feel in my opinion.

[Lurker]

On a last note which I like to make before I finish and upload my converted map DXMP_SpeedMine soon...

To avoid misinterpretation, I do not just convert maps from Unreal 1 to Deus Ex 1. I mean I don't just hit export and import in the editor, load in some original textures and rebuild it. Everyone could do that.

What I'm doing here is actually re-editing the converted maps, carefully replacing surfaces with new textures, adding DX-related stuff, adding more areas (if needed), adding better lighting, adding cool sound effects. adding more detail to the maps and so on and on and on........ so that the finished product looks much better than the original one (!).

That's why it can take days, weeks or even months before I'm done with a particular map which I am converting and re-editing at the moment. As far as DXMP_SpeedMine is concerned, I think the map will be finished today or at the end of this week. I won't extend this map too much, because I want to keep it simple and good at the same time. Sometimes an original Unreal map is good as it is and you should not add too much new stuff to it. This can differ from case to case though.

[atrey65789]

Wow... You really go all out on converting... thats awesome! And to be honest, thats acually what I do... Export and Import. But hey, It works! lol And When I convert, I make the maps as original as possable.

[Lurker]

Wow... You really go all out on converting... thats awesome! And to be honest, thats acually what I do... Export and Import. But hey, It works! lol And When I convert, I make the maps as original as possable.

You talk about so-called "one to one copies", meaning to convert a map and making it exactly the same as the original with no change whatsoever. Yeah, it can work for Epic's original multiplayer and singleplayer maps, because those maps are pretty optimized and good-looking on their own.

But it doesn't work for those custom Unreal maps made by fans and such. To be honest, I've checked over 1000 Unreal 1 DM maps and only a few of them looked suitable for Deus Ex. Not to mention that many authors in the old days released their first maps and didn't have the experience with UnrealEd and made very shitty and noobish-looking maps with weird textures, weird lighting and unrealistic brushes with too big scaling (no pun intended).

So if you convert those kind of maps you should definately do some rework on them. Some of those maps even need a complete rehash imho.

[atrey65789]

Alright, I mean, Thats not all I do is Export, Import, and say Im done, I do some work on it, But thats just placing the weapons in the maps, and doing all the lighting. BTW, are you putting regular deus ex guns in the converted maps? or are you placing weapons from tnag in there?

[Lurker]

Alright, I mean, Thats not all I do is Export, Import, and say Im done, I do some work on it, But thats just placing the weapons in the maps, and doing all the lighting. BTW, are you putting regular deus ex guns in the converted maps? or are you placing weapons from tnag in there?

Yes, definately! I will place U1 weapons from Hejhujka's TNAG.u , so it's going to be required to install that mod unless I include the mod file (7 mb in size) in my package. I'd like to make a mix of Unreal and DX weapons in those converted maps of mine. I hope it works out...

[James]

Last post because I forgot one point, which is why I even bothered posting in the thread in the first place... but forgot:
Although the maps are copyrighted for Unreal games (they are right?, as far as I remember you could open anything official in editor for all installments of Unreal and Unreal Tournament), you can still open and edit them because they want you to learn how they're made. EPIC Games have developed a strong revenue via supporting mods, small and large budget or profit games alike.

too long; didn't read, while they may be copyrighted, they allow you to 'edit' them for users to learn how to use their software.

To be fair you should just port them over if you're willing to, and remove if they bother to ask for C&D.

And seriously, I would love to see people forbid the map protection tool. A stagnating tool in a stagnant multiplayer game upon the week of its final release?, haha.

[Lurker]

To be fair you should just port them over if you're willing to, and remove if they bother to ask for C&D.

I may do that with the original Unreal maps. Release the conversions for Deus Ex and wait for Epic to fox me. LOL! No seriously, it's a good idea though.

And seriously, I would love to see people forbid the map protection tool. A stagnating tool in a stagnant multiplayer game upon the week of its final release?, haha.

People like to load my DXMP maps in UnrealEd 1 and see how I did stuff? They could if I decided not to patch my maps with the MPT. But then the questions is: What could those authors learn from my maps which they didn't know already? Does it make a difference?

You know, the MPT is one of those freaky tools made by hacker-type guys. They just created this tool to show the noobs that they can do it. They have also released a Mod Protection Tool in which you can patch your .u mod files in a way which makes decompiling impossible. Some authors like to use MPT, some not. The more important part is: When you patch your maps and mods with MPT then it doesn't affect gameplay in any way. It's a subtle tool.

[James]

What couldn't they know?
Some people are just enthusiastic or intriqued in how people made something, like the approach of making brushes or even something simple like the statistics of the map. Stuff like this allows anyone to see the finer details of how a level artist/designer does his work.

Same applies to coding.

Well I don't know, ultimately it is perspective and I am more interested in videogame media development than videogames themselves these days. So, yeah.

[China]

Personally I like to release maps unprotected, this is so people can take a look at some brushwork to figure out how it was constructed. I know there's mappers out there that appreciate the sentiment regardless of their experience level. If I can motivate people to either want to learn more or come back to the SDK then that would make for a very happy chappy.

Regarding your work Lurker I am very interested as I am currently running a server with exclusively new custom maps and this is right up my alley with converting maps and such, I wish you all the best.

[atrey65789]

Agreed. I would release an unprotected map... But ya gotta remember... there are those people out there who will download the map, Totally ruin it, put it on their server, and say that the creator made it.


lol Im not sure if I want to take my chances

[James]

But ya gotta remember... there are those people out there who will download the map, Totally ruin it, put it on their server, and say that the creator made it.

Oh no!, who would do such a vile and evil thing to someone who would have posted it on a database of sorts complete with date?

Who cares?, educate.

[atrey65789]

Gotta point lol Yeah, On second thought, I may just do it.

[~ô¿ô~Nobody~]

But ya gotta remember... there are those people out there who will download the map, Totally ruin it, put it on their server, and say that the creator made it.

Oh no!, who would do such a vile and evil thing to someone who would have posted it on a database of sorts complete with date?

Who cares?, educate.

It's the creators OWN decision whether he wants to save his/her intellectual property from being stolen and/or getting defaced.
It's not up to you to judge about it.

[James]

It's the creators OWN decision whether he wants to save his/her intellectual property from being stolen and/or getting defaced.
It's not up to you to judge about it.

So I'm not allowed an opinion that protecting maps against 20 people is a little... overkill?

I couldn't care less if it was up to me or not. Do you want me to suddenly stop talking because I have my own opinion that the decision is flawed and doesn't have enough good reasons? I think I was 100% entitled to say this, especially when he posted he was unsure about what approach to take, so what decision did the user exactly make, Nobody?

It is up for you to judge my revelation that copyright may be enough to perserve that he created his intellectual property on account of it ever being stolen/and or getting defaced. It's up to them to choose MPT too but I'm just throwing it out through a constructive argument (being self aware it is also my own perspective in post #303827), unlike your last 2 posts in this thread which falsely delivered themselves as if they were fact.

-

Anyway enough about that, thanks for everyone else who replied. I'll say it again Lurker; just do it and worry about it later because I don't see much coming your way. If you do hear from the company (or rather a legal affiliate) they'll most likely only make a small move against it. Good luck.

[Lurker]

Wow, I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve with the little MPT (Map/Mod Protection Tool) side topic. Didn't know that people in 2012 have such a problem with protected DX1 maps.

You know, we don't need to make a problem of it. I can release DXMP_SpeedMine without patching it with MPT, so you guys can load in the map in UnrealEd and check stuff out if that's what you intend to do.

Anyway enough about that, thanks for everyone else who replied. I'll say it again Lurker; just do it and worry about it later because I don't see much coming your way. If you do hear from the company (or rather a legal affiliate) they'll most likely only make a small move against it. Good luck.

Thanks. I hope I can release Dasa Cellars and other converted versions of Epic's original maps without getting in trouble. And thanks for your opinions, guys.

[China]

Hi Lurker, any updates on this ?

[Lurker]

Hi Lurker, any updates on this ?

Yes, I'm still working on the Dasa Cellars singleplayer map and other maps from old Unreal. Sorry for the delay.

Currently I'm thinking about how to release the maps once they are finished. Separately or in one Pack...

P.S. I may release a couple of demo maps here in the forum today, however.