Something that has been grinding my gears for years

[James]

Ahah rhyme.

ATDM is not a competitive game type, it's one sided to the winning team. I'm not even going to explain why, it's obvious: It's a multiple juggernaut-esqe gametype. Full/limited augs (0 per kill) and max skills is the way to go, don't reward players and make it harder for the losers despite getting a boner that you can crush them unless they fuck you around with an EMP and then you cry about the guy who killed you might be labtec under an alias.

ATDM pub games however, are supreme.

[~SaSQuAtCH~]

ADTM

I c wut u did thar

[James]

whoops

[Dex]

Agreed. It's too unbalanced, especially if you're not there from the start. The first player always gets more augs\skill points and if he chooses which ones correctly, he will become overpowered after just 1 kill.

[James]

I'd say 2 to be fair.

[Dex]

I'd say 2 to be fair.

Cloak\Vision, Speed, Ballistic Protection, Regeneration\Radar Transparency; taking Lockpicking or Electronics (depending on the map), getting LAMs and biocells, getting kills

That's 1 kill for a start.

[Dae]

If games were absolutely fair, they would not be as interesting to play.

ATDM is pretty alright unless you're playing with idiots who think that explosives are "dumb", "for noobs" etc and kickban for using them. But normally if there's a streaker you could always find a LAW and with a pretty good chance chance you'll end him (and if lucky, some other nearby enemies) no matter how skillful they are.

If you're very accurate you can always buy targeting and try getting all the headshots, that always makes life of a streaker much harder.

ATDM though leaves no chance to newbies who are not too assertive, stubborn and egoistic (these traits can be pretty much applied to the whole ATDM subcommunity).

If I were to change something in ATDM, I'd give more bio or reduce energy consuming of some augs.

[James]

If games were absolutely fair, they would not be as interesting to play.

Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress 2, Deus Ex 0-Aug. Each have their overpowered shit but they're fair because it's open to you too. You're forced to kill to get a boost in ATDM.

I don't care if they won't be interesting to play, I said I like ATDM the best but the fact is it isn't competitive.

[Aidan]

Never liked ATDM.. I love aug, but it's a pain in the ass working up to something and then losing it all, and getting owned the majority/rest of the match.

[MrBlackDX]

I play DXMP Coop

Which is why I lose cos I'm the only one

[synthetic]

ATDM is pretty alright unless you're playing with idiots who think that explosives are "dumb", "for noobs" etc and kickban for using them. But normally if there's a streaker you could always find a LAW and with a pretty good chance chance you'll end him (and if lucky, some other nearby enemies) no matter how skillful they are.

Nothing else to it.



ATDM is just fine. Uneven teams cause havoc and rage? 0augs is the same. Put couple good players in one team with maybe 2 newbs and put all the other noobs in the other team and see how the score will be. Itll be SAD.

It would be ignorant to say that ATDM is so special because its team gametype. Every multiplayer game pretty much allows the team that is doing team work to dominate over one that does not.

Corner streaked enemy with 3 unstreakers who know what they are doing, and you have one dead streaker. Feeling badass and taking on whole 0aug community with your mad skills? Just watch as 3 good players rush you (in a more or less tactical way), and while you kill one of them, getting 1 frag, they kill you and your entire team. 1-1 for you, 1-6 for your team.

But yeah... atdm is fine. Newbs can plant 5 lams and sit near them with plasma rifle. In 0augs they cant do shit, they die too fast.

[James]

3 streakers vs 3 non streakers = ???

Doesn't matter if you can beat the juggernaut, there can be a team of them.

[synthetic]

throw couple lams or snipe planted lam. or find law.

[James]

That's not balanced that's forced tactics. If competitive why not just give "Full/limited augs (0 per kill) and max skills" there you go do whatever you want and you still have to think.

[~[ß]Lost~]

Agreed. It's too unbalanced, especially if you're not there from the start. The first player always gets more augs\skill points and if he chooses which ones correctly, he will become overpowered after just 1 kill.

lol shut the fuck up.

[~[ß]Lost~]

ATDM = completely fair. It doesn't matter whether you enter the server during the first minute or when half of the map has already passed. You can still do good, but only if you know what you are doing.

All of todays fps games are like this "point, shoot twice, the one who gets the first shot wins". These shitty games only encourage people to camp and I admit all I pretty much do in newer games is camp. Otherwise I wouldn't have made it to Top 100 Combat Arms best kdr list. The fights in these games aren't intense, just boring.

But in ATDM it's so fucking fun to run around and waste atleast three clips to the enemy till he dies. No wonder everyone gets good in a week in other games. It's fucking ridiculous that any newb can beat you, only if he gets the first shot. DX ATDM = That's intense and fun

[James]

You enjoy ATDM, yeah so do I that's why its my favourite game type but you really didn't help the argument that it's fair.

Look you can argue all day but any game that rewards the winner with better chances to win (i.e, games like MW, Counter Strike) are not very fair games and just stomp on the losing teams and everyone knows games like Quake 2, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, UT2K4 (that's merely 2 games each from 1 series) are better and fair, and oh boy oh boy those games are very popular and intense as fuck. There's no better reward than being able to match your enemy in the ring of honour AND being better than them. If you get a bonus it isn't as special and you'd be making threads in 2003 requesting a modification to become God. Despite all CS games being fuck ton popular for leagues I hope Counter Strike 2 gets casualised with limited inventory system based on weight which you can change at any time and just fuck off with the money all together. Face it, it'll be a better competitive game. I mean TFC is shat on by the 'casual' TF2 in gameplay and competitiveness regardless of it being an easier game.

[-TheSpecialist-]

This is all based on opinion though.

The competitive part about ATDM is being able to break a streak, I've been killed numerous times ranging from missteps on my part and the person I was facing being simply the better player.

However the better player can be broken down into the connection they use, the machine they've got and anything else that will let them play optimally.

Simply put all the tools are out there for you to win you just have think strategically rather than go in head first trying to get a kill.

To a new player or one that is relatively unskilled in augmented play, then the above will not be applicable since they are an easy streak.

It really isn't fair to say that ATDM is not competitive; but I do agree its unbalanced at times and will depend on who is on your team. DZ also stated that ATDM was unfair from my memories, but that is fuzzy.

BTDM itself seems fair, but it also depends on who is able to gather resources and exploit weakness of the opposing players. In the end there is no true fair type, just subjective opinion.

[James]

Surely BTDM (holy shit I'm rusty, this is full augs full skills right?) is much more fair, it depends on the skills and tactics alone rather than the rewards you get from winning. Everything is open to you it just depends on what you do with it and what your team can too.

[synthetic]

BTDM is rather boring, it took me a while to get used to but with BTDM being the prevailing gametype of 2009 its not like I had a choice. Considering how many btdm players today get nearly 80% of their kills by throwing a lam every 20 seconds into their teammates that are fighting one enemy, I suppose you could say its more fair for different skill levels. Maybe thats why its called Basic.

[clyzm]

In every game there has to be a loser and a winner.

[James]

Both players can be on equal level and equal ground you know!, not in a steel fortress with 100 automated turrets surrounded by a moat of lava and all the other player gets is 10 health.

[clyzm]

True, but that's where gameplay gets creative. You get faced with a guy who's had a 10 kill streak, has regen, BP, ADS and a boatload of meds. You can either try to outgun him or develop a strategy involving booby traps and flanking

[James]

Satisfication is still a great thing but it doesn't make for balanced gameplay despite how good it feels.

[Dae]

not in a steel fortress with 100 automated turrets surrounded by a moat of lava and all the other player gets is 10 health.

Why not, it's fun (not that exaggerated though). That's actually why Jazz's Pool party and BFP were so popular back in the day.

[James]

I'm going to lay on my desk for a moment and sigh so I don't have to repeat a point I made 15 minutes ago above your post.

[Dae]

I just don't understand why do games need balance so badly at the cost of satisfaction?

[James]

They don't. Games also don't need to have satisfication at the cost of fair gameplay either, and games which aren't considered fair shouldn't be considered competitive.

miles edgeworth bow.gif

[Baleout]

*Spits out coffee*

HOLD IT
If a game isn't balanced, surely in tournaments we should just remove every unbalanced thing from the game and strip it down to a dull, lifeless shell so that everyone has a fair chance of winning!

Anyone for Smash Bros. ?

[synthetic]

Actually i think 4k+2k SP/3+2 augs setup is pretty fun and different experience. Someone, maybe EL used to host this. Its not as boring as BTDM and not as frustrating as ATDM can be. You can protect yourself against shells from spawn with ads,and still have bally and speed or cloak and speed, or cloak bally and speed. Plus, one of your weaponskills is maxed out. Nobody has bothered to host it past few years though.