2 MB's in 2 months Mapping Challenge

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2 MB's in 2 months Mapping Challenge

Postby Kalman11 » Mon Apr 02, 12 7:56 pm

Updated info;

2 Megabytes in 2 months Mapping Challenge 1st April - 1st June 2012

I propose a mapping challenge which requires the mapper to complete a DXMP map which is less than 2 megabytes within 2 months! Check the link for more information.

Rules

- Map Challenge is open to everyone.
- Maps must be no bigger than 2 Megabytes (2048 Kilobytes).
- Maps must be handed in on (or before) the 1st June 2012 for judging.
- Maps must be started from scratch.
- Maps should be fighting maps and not fun maps.
- Maps should be unprotected and released to the community.
- Maps shall have their own thread here on Gravity-World and should contain updates and pictures.



Judges [(FACE)] and Shadowrunner will judge (rated from from 1 to 10) the following criteria;

- Looks
- Originality
- Playability
- Atmosphere
- Lighting
- Sounds


Entrants People who have entered (or possibly?) so far;

Anax
Atrey
Avator
Chees
Chinny
Cozmo
Duke
Fisk
Kalman
Magus
Majster
Sheeklouch?
Ste


Mappers have made threads entitled "2 MB Mapping Challenge" followed by their name and are posting updates and pictures.

Pictures Latest pictures of entries;

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Kalman11 on Tue May 01, 12 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby atrey65789 » Tue Apr 03, 12 12:46 am

I'm in. :)
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Postby RedDynasty » Tue Apr 03, 12 1:10 am

A question, for someone to a be a judge they must have allready made maps right?
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Postby China » Tue Apr 03, 12 9:17 am

Glad to hear it atrey65789, can you make a thread on www.Gravity-World.com called 2MB Mapping Challenge - Atrey and post updates regarding your map's progress, some pictures would be cool.

Here's Kalman's thread for example - http://www.gravity-world.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3464

@RD - I wouldn't say that the person would have to make maps to be a judge as it would be better to get a mix of player and mapper.
Last edited by China on Tue Apr 03, 12 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Psychotic » Tue Apr 03, 12 9:43 am

RedDynasty wrote:A question, for someone to a be a judge they must have allready made maps right?


No, they just have to be fairly knowledgeable about what makes a good map in the eyes of both a designer and a player.

People from the industry - in this case: people who make maps - are good because good mappers will know what makes a map good. They know how the design works and what basic design principles are.

However, these people can and usually do have a widely different bias in contrast of that of the actual players. A player is likely to see a map in a widely different light than a creator is, and that's why you want both peoples opinions.

If you're going to ask for judges, get people who will tell you why they like or dislike something and how they feel it could be improved. Don't get people who will rate a map out of 10 and say what they hated about it, as it doesn't help you understand why it's bad (or good).
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Postby James » Tue Apr 03, 12 10:03 am

I think the best players avaliable for aug and 0-augs should be allowed to comment on the playability of the maps and the best of the bunch whom are knowledgable in what makes balanced DXMP maps (who are also trustworthy for their opinions) should be made judges.

My personal opinion is that these factors should come into play when judging:
(Balance = Gameplay) > (Technical design = Performance) > Quirks/tactics unique to the map > Art design

Agreed there should be no arbitary scores, the map should be considered as a whole package by each judge.

Chin; don't forget to post this on TTLG, OTP and official Eidos Montreal DX forums.
Last edited by James on Tue Apr 03, 12 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby China » Tue Apr 03, 12 10:16 am

Okay thanks James, I'll get my chinions onto that.
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Postby Marder » Thu Apr 05, 12 10:04 pm

I think James is along the right lines, but...

It will lead to an imbalance in what is considered playable. Are we mapping for clan war or public?

In your second point about opinions. This is why I think the judges need to judge the maps together.

If Chin just says "ready, steady, go" to the judges and they aren't all on the same page, scores will vary wildy between each criteria.

For example. Kalman is making a lighthouse, never seen it in DX, so I would have to score very highly on "originality". Chinny is making a UT map, which without conferring to other judges I would score very poorly for "originality".

However if the judges discuss each issue, I am sure I would see things differently and so would other judges.

The proof of the pudding is if judges have a test run and score for each map and each criteria, I've got a feeling the scores will not match up at all. If the judging is to be useful, judges should be agreed on what each criteria means exactly.
Last edited by Marder on Thu Apr 05, 12 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby James » Fri Apr 06, 12 5:40 am

Marder wrote:It will lead to an imbalance in what is considered playable. Are we mapping for clan war or public?


If it is a map for fighting then it should focus on competitive play as this is the direction normal for these maps. You can still be creative within these lines. There is no use for a pretty map if it is poor for multi-player gameplay.
Last edited by James on Fri Apr 06, 12 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tantalus » Fri Apr 06, 12 11:02 am

Sorry Marder, but mapmaking is not a piece of expressionist art lol.
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Postby James » Fri Apr 06, 12 11:19 am

I do not agree with that at all because the best maps do require an actual artist and that is what the actual videogame industry looks for.

But it is definitely backseat to the balance for a multi-player map, so yeah, sorry ShadowRunner.
Last edited by James on Fri Apr 06, 12 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Marder » Sun Apr 08, 12 9:28 pm

Don't worry, we've decided to have player input.

I think for visual communication, you do need to learn basics about certain things.

And you're right, a beautiful map is more useless than an ugly but playable map.

It looks like Magus, Cozmo and Ste have all taken up this challenge, so it's getting exciting...
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Postby Aidan » Mon Apr 09, 12 2:09 am

Tantalus wrote:Sorry Marder, but mapmaking is not a piece of expressionist art lol.


How can you say this?


The finer details, and architectural work is what springs life into a map. There are many maps I can depict as works of art.


You might as well say.. "Landscaping is not a piece of expressionist art"

Anything one can 'create', can be considered as art. For good or bad.


James wrote:But it is definitely backseat to the balance for a multi-player map, so yeah, sorry ShadowRunner.


I could actually contest this as well....


The way one balances the map can be considered as art. I've seen some clever, and interesting ways of making a map equally fair for all players.



I'm sorry guys, but again... Anything one can 'create', can be considered as art.
Last edited by Aidan on Mon Apr 09, 12 2:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby James » Mon Apr 09, 12 6:32 am

The way one balances the map can be considered as art. I've seen some clever, and interesting ways of making a map equally fair for all players.


Is the game chess by in its form of its rules, physical presence and mechanics, "art"?
Last edited by James on Mon Apr 09, 12 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aidan » Mon Apr 09, 12 11:12 pm

James wrote:
The way one balances the map can be considered as art. I've seen some clever, and interesting ways of making a map equally fair for all players.


Is the game chess by in its form of its rules, physical presence and mechanics, "art"?


Depends how one interprets it. Art is dynamic, and has no one meaning.

Chess' unknown inventor of Ancient Indian times created this game which is art in itself. The rules we play by are his/hers. Think of playing in the mind of an inventor/artist.

It takes a creative mind to invent such things; With creativity, comes art.


However, saying this... I do not consider EVERYTHING as art. This is mainly because I do not educate myself in certain things that COULD potentially be art. I try sometimes, but do not always understand. Not every person has the same mind.

E.G. I've never understood rock. However, I DO understand many artists, in the electronica songs they make. Electronica is about emotion, and feeling, what the artist feel, and how they express it with sound. Lyrical or not.

I pity those who label something as.. "not real music", "stupid and repetitive", "there's no words this sucks" out of their own ignorance/arrogance.

I do not expect people to understand all art forms. As such, I do not understand rock, country, certain visual artists.

I do not mock their work, or claim it as anything other than art. It is my own situation that I do not understand it. With time, one can. I only wish people would educate themselves.


*If you would like me to go in the psychoanalytic pathology of it. The suppressed thoughts of one's subconscious could reflect of the type of art created. Many artists experiment with drugs. This is another topic, but is also very interesting. Certain drugs encourage, and allow mixed emotions, and suppressed thoughts to flow freely in their works. While one's unknowing sober thoughts can initiate such abilities. Certain drugs allow artists to display that ability tenfold.

I am in no way labeling all artist as drug abusers. I only state that certain artists, here and there experiment to encourage such free-flowing artistic abilities deeper than most others. I experiment from time to time, and have made some VERY interesting, and deep music.


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A true artist channels their Art thought the conscious thoughts, and perceptions an artist will paint a picture with. With these two memory groups, reflect ALL pre-conscious, and unconscious thoughts.
Last edited by Aidan on Mon Apr 09, 12 11:54 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Tantalus » Tue Apr 10, 12 12:12 am

Aidan wrote:Anything one can 'create', can be considered as art.


Well, no because art has no other purpose other than itself. A car cannot be a piece of art, and never will be a piece of art but it contains artistic merits in it; absolutely.

This is the defining line here, mapmaking can have an art-making thought process behind it, but it's not judged, appreciated and based solely on those merits.

A lot of influences can create an unconscious process like there is with making art, but you always have the dominating and conscious criteria of what makes the map a well-designed map; thus serving its purpose.


Goddamn, art discussion everywhere in this forum today!
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Postby Aidan » Tue Apr 10, 12 12:39 am

Tantalus wrote:
Aidan wrote:Anything one can 'create', can be considered as art.


Well, no because art has no other purpose other than itself. A car cannot be a piece of art, and never will be a piece of art but it contains artistic merits in it; absolutely.

This is the defining line here, mapmaking can have an art-making thought process behind it, but it's not judged, appreciated and based solely on those merits.

A lot of influences can create an unconscious process like there is with making art, but you always have the dominating and conscious criteria of what makes the map a well-designed map; thus serving its purpose.


Goddamn, art discussion everywhere in this forum today!



Well, no because art has no other purpose other than itself.


Purpose of art is listening/examining someone's piece, and learning about the emotions they feel, or the beauty they intended to capture.


Also, that answer is a conundrum. You've basically said... Art has no other purpose than Art. I'm sorry, but that is an entirely false statement.

I am psychoanalytically minded when it comes to deep interpretation. Others may view this in a different manner. It's along the lines of the way we interpret literature (which in itself is work of art).


A car cannot be a piece of art, and never will be a piece of art but it contains artistic merits in it; absolutely.


It certainly is! Especially in the post-futuristic world we live in today.

A car designer for example can take a Historic approach to his/her car designs, and merge 60's model cars with our own year of 2012.

People can question, and pick apart art to find answers. Art is useful in many ways. In the Auto industry, it is more visual entertainment of a car created by one uniquely minded person. Why did Kia all of a sudden start manufacturing futuristic looking vehicles? It's Art, and how very appealing it is to the eyes.

This is the defining line here, mapmaking can have an art-making thought process behind it, but it's not judged, appreciated and based solely on those merits.


When people say "This map looks really cool!", they are unconsciously (and unknowingly) appreciating the art. Although for entertainment value in visuals.

When people say "This map is very balanced and unique", they are unconsciously (and unknowingly) appreciating the art of logic and balance.

======================================
Again, you can not define art as one thing, as there are many definitions for many forms. Art has a purpose, and you must educate yourself to understand it.

There are many forms of art I need to educate myself on.

Who's to say I can't dig through the thoughts of one's odd painting to find an answer... a simple invention we've been searching for our entire life.
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Postby Tantalus » Tue Apr 10, 12 12:42 am

Aidan wrote:Abridged argument.


Let's continue this in private chat. :)
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Postby Aidan » Tue Apr 10, 12 12:45 am

Tantalus wrote:
Aidan wrote:Abridged argument.


Let's continue this in private chat. :)


What is there to argue?
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Postby Tantalus » Tue Apr 10, 12 12:54 am

Aidan wrote:
Tantalus wrote:
Aidan wrote:Abridged argument.


Let's continue this in private chat. :)


What is there to argue?


Go and have a look.

We need to stop derailing threads.
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Postby Aidan » Tue Apr 10, 12 1:47 am

Tantalus wrote:
Aidan wrote:
Tantalus wrote:
Aidan wrote:Abridged argument.


Let's continue this in private chat. :)


What is there to argue?


Go and have a look.

We need to stop derailing threads.


Agreed, lol.
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Postby Marder » Tue Apr 10, 12 5:38 pm

James wrote:But it is definitely backseat to the balance for a multi-player map, so yeah, sorry ShadowRunner.


One phrase: "Willing suspension of disbelief".

If visuals are poor, there is no willing suspension. Balance is more about mechanics of the experience than the feel or atmosphere of the experience. Liberty Island isn't the best level, but it has more impact than Battery Park. Music and lighting are a strong factor in this. Balance is more akin to pace and editing in a movie. You can not suspend the audience's disbelief without having both decent balance and decent atmosphere or visuals. If your "car" looks like lego, it doesn't matter how playable it is. My 2 cents. Judging balance will be a lot easier perhaps and yes, if a map looks like a work of art, but it's unplayable, then it fails totally.
Last edited by Marder on Tue Apr 10, 12 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby James » Tue Apr 10, 12 5:47 pm

I dont know, Minecraft is pretty popular. It's undoubtedly a videogame with ugly blocks and textures but that style works.

Aesthetics mean nothing to me in multi-player videogames, I choose to sacrifice look for performance. I can single handly say I have the most experience of competitive level design in the DXMP community, you'll have to accept that visuals come after balance and playability of the maps for multi-player.
Last edited by James on Tue Apr 10, 12 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby China » Mon Apr 16, 12 6:30 pm

Updated Info.

2 Megabytes in 2 months Mapping Challenge 1st April - 1st June 2012

I propose a mapping challenge which requires the mapper to complete a DXMP map which is less than 2 megabytes within 2 months!

Rules

- Map Challenge is open to everyone.
- Maps must be no bigger than 2 Megabytes (2048 Kilobytes).
- Maps must be handed in on (or before) the 1st June 2012 for judging.
- Maps must be started from scratch.
- Maps should be fighting maps and not fun maps.
- Maps should be unprotected and released to the community.
- Maps shall have their own thread here on Gravity-World and should contain updates and pictures.



Judges [(FACE)] and Shadowrunner will judge (rated from from 1 to 10) the following criteria;

- Looks
- Originality
- Playability
- Atmosphere
- Lighting
- Sounds


Entrants People who have entered (or possibly?) so far;

Anax
Atrey
Avator
Chees
Chinny
Cozmo
Fisk
Kalman
Magus?
Ste


Mappers have made threads entitled "2 MB Mapping Challenge" followed by their name and are posting updates and pictures.

Pictures Latest pictures of entries;

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImageImage


If you are interested in joining please post in this thread - http://www.gravity-world.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3450
Last edited by China on Mon Apr 16, 12 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby China » Mon Apr 30, 12 2:09 pm

New map screenshots;

ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage
Image

It's not to late to enter, the deadline for the 2MB map is June 1st.
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Postby atrey65789 » Tue May 01, 12 1:34 am

Working On my map... Will have it turned in by time
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