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Postby synthetic » Mon Aug 06, 12 11:07 am

James wrote:
r12m wrote:incredibly promising form of a competitive online shooter


Promising? It never promised anything. The community made the competitive balancing (MTL) and the split sides decided on what gametypes they invest time into and support. The same community was always lazy with expanding on this and the player population had nothing to do with it.

The concept of the creation of DXMP was nothing special, it was simply Deus Ex with a multi-player. I repeat as I did above and have been doing for years, the community literally made (and break) this game. That's what's truly special.


You either purposely misinterpret my words or simply do not get my point that should've been obvious from further statements.
*It* never promised anything, most likely it was never even planned! It "happened". *What* happened carries its own promise and that is what I am talking about. Given how you haven't played the game at a level above basic funland flying lowgrav, I don't expect you to understand this.

The MTL was necessary to iron out some of the most basic mistakes a multiplayer game cannot afford. The fact that it split the community was unintended side effect coming with the logical implementation of allowing further server-side customization. Everybody I've known in 0augs left the game after ~8 months to ~2-3 years. All of the augers I've known remain or revisit the game. I think it speaks for itself. Further points about this so-called standoff are brought out in posts above.
If the community had done nothing, we'd still be playing this game, albeit in fewer gametypes and with additional levels of drama. I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that the community was lazy or has not accomplished much. It was never expected to, but could've. Along with Smuggler and Nobody, Alex from your clan carved its name into the community.
Last edited by synthetic on Mon Aug 06, 12 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby James » Mon Aug 06, 12 11:18 am

It wasn't misinterpreted, I don't see in any context how DXMP is promising at all because it simply doesn't. I supported your full claim by making people aware it was the community that made DXMP what it is.

The MTL was necessary to iron out some of the most basic mistakes a multiplayer game cannot afford. The fact that it split the community was unintended side effect coming with the logical implementation of allowing further server-side customization.


I'm proud of the multiple ways to play DXMP in a team/arena FPS style. I have no problem with that except for the obnoxious arguments over the years which again is the community's own fault.

If the community done nothing, would this also include MTL? You cannot predict those things. Let's talk about what we've got.

On that note, I've never played on a server that affects the gravity beyond the map (water, etc). Can you please stop with these multiple ad hominem and stay coherent to discussion?
Last edited by James on Tue Aug 07, 12 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby synthetic » Mon Aug 06, 12 11:37 am

I have not forgotten how MTL came to be, my reference assumed it was never made. It would create an even harsher environment than exists now, one where paranoia coupled with experience keeps the game alive, if it accomplishes that at all.

But, you are right, let us talk about what we have.


No matter how I look, I simply do not see any basis for the stand off. I have debated against augers who press their opinion on the 0aug community, in the past, but not because they are wrong, but because of their attitude towards it. 0augs is a bland and primitive form of a box shooter, lacking everything to make it stand apart from a novice game creators first beta. Even in such form it can and does function, yet it simply doesn't add anything new to the table, but rather takes away from it, a lot at that.
Most people that support the 0aug scene 1) lack knowledge about available games 2) argue from their comfort zone - i am speaking of accumulated skill and experience - just before launching another game of interest 3) don't play one or the other but want to get a slice of the flaming action.

I see that your rebuttals call for further explanation about what I refer to as promising, but I do not see the point? As I mentioned, you'd have to play the game to get it, and *that* game you have not played, at least not enough to *get* it.

Or perhaps, can you show me another online game where you have to aggressively toggle 5-6+ elements with potent effect on the gameplay, manage their state that demands utmost attention, and all the while use the entire playfield along with the elements there for your benefit at any given time? Oh.. and managing, planning the skills as well as the previously mentioned switchable elements.

Auged gametypes came to be extremely aggressive, with the exception of campable and timed boosters in few games, you do not see that anywhere.

Playing dxmp is not unlike playing a piano while you are writing the notes. That is the promise I am talking about.
Last edited by synthetic on Mon Aug 06, 12 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby James » Mon Aug 06, 12 11:52 am

Or perhaps, can you show me another online game where you have to aggressively toggle 5-6+ elements with potent effect on the gameplay, manage their state that demands utmost attention, and all the while use the entire playfield along with the elements there for your benefit at any given time? Oh.. and managing, planning the skills as well as the previously mentioned switchable elements.


Most RTS games. But shooters is what you're obviously aiming at.

I posted yesterday that DXMP isn't that unique anymore. To name a few outside of the DX series (including Project: Snowblind) there's stuff like Dystopia and the multiplayer components for the Crysis series. Maybe it isn't 5+ but to the core there's certainly elements similar to DXMP's augmentation in there. When you cut the fat you realise most of DXMP's augs were taken from Deus Ex's WRPG-style statistic buffs against types of damage. If I recall most of the stuff like energy-shield is taken later in the metagame of choice, right?

In all honesty though? DXMP is better as a multiplayer than every single one of these games (those unlisted of course) except for Crysis: Warhead (a pure fun experience, try it). However, from what I've experienced DXMP's competitive standards are on top of all of them, but it is leagues below the map, mechanics, skill and match dedication of even the smallest competitive games. Not sure whenever I can call Crysis or DXMP the best for modding standards.

On the subject of bad videogames, we at DXMP had a really great time with Crysis 2. As we played it we were making fun of it for basically being a CoDified DXMP. What made me laugh the most was that there's a mode which is basically CounterStrike's bombing objective except the terrorist team is augged armed with only a handgun and the counter-terrorists are 0-augged but with a full weapon arsenal. It was a very amusing concept.
Last edited by James on Tue Aug 07, 12 5:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby synthetic » Mon Aug 06, 12 12:55 pm

I think most of the charm lies with certain combination of simplicity and complexity, balanced at the right point. Movement is perfectly fluid, which is one of the bigger issues I am afraid of with the newer games that might try to copy the booster element there. The main selling point would be the ease of access and the level of potency of the augmentations.

Ultimately what you'd have to replicate is a fluid, fast-paced gameplay with a lot of features that need to be toggled in FPS environment. Perhaps Warhead manages that, I haven't tried it.

Augs took an obvious step away from original deus ex, from the day it was launched, because of how it was designed. What was born was a fast paced, aggressive gameplay where you don't spend time tinkering on things, or shouldn't have to as main agenda. I am not sure how you'd properly class such an approach.. just "shooter" I guess? Alternative would be to have all the elements that we have, but slow down the pace by making augmentations harder to come by or aquire, now that is an entirely different game already.

If you can't circle entire map in no less than 10 seconds, killing someone with a blast to the face during the run, and upgrading 3 different skills during a jump into the air, then its not dxmp. Or alternatively, crawling through the map at snail pace but surviving 90% of the forms of damage thrown at you.

These elements aren't difficult to replicate, but I don't know of any game accomplishing it quite like that. IIRC snowblind had what one could class as rather passive effect augs, toggle-able or not, whereas augs in dxmp mean life or death difference, in a matter of seconds.

All in all, you have a wide amount of things to switch in the heat of the battle, making a huge difference, hence referred to as potent/aggressive impact boosters. The choice of skills and augmentation setups adding complexity but not necessarily taking away from the pace!
Last edited by synthetic on Mon Aug 06, 12 1:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby clyzm » Mon Aug 06, 12 10:12 pm

Not for nothing but to this day I have friends that play games like Dark Souls, Starcraft e.g. genuinely difficult online competitive games, then I bring up Deus Ex and they've heard of it obviously but when I show them videos of ATDM multiplayer most of them just laugh at how ridiculously fast paced and disorganized it seems

But I tell them there's a method to the madness and it really does try your reaction time and situational response (this guy has energy shield while I have a plasma gun, i must switch to a different weapon or use an EMP grenade or...)

All in all ATDM is impressively hard for newcomers and everybody knew this, so 0 aug was gradually introduced and people enjoyed it thoroughly

The two gametypes should not be measured in which is more complex, that's like a dick waving competition, instead they should be analyzed for their own individual merits

Are there any other communities with such a drastic difference in their multiplayer gameplay as augs/0augs? One comes to mind, the classic UT debate of instagib/noninstagib
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Postby James » Mon Aug 06, 12 10:30 pm

WarCraft 3 and Dota maybe? Dota, like 0-aug, is a mod too. Extremely different to Warcraft 3. Along with SC's AoS it's now its own genre (Dotalikes, ASSFAGGOTS, Mobas).
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