I see teh futura of DX.

[Siva]

And its name r teh source engine!

Its so flexible! I don't even OWN HL2, I played the DEMO and was mesmerised!

You can interact with EVERYTHING.

If you fall from a large height onto a box, the box breaks according to where you fell!

And the gravity gun.. O_o

You would not belive the amount of time I threw saw-blades at respawning zombies.

That game is so.. so.. genius.

Anyway - If we remade DX on the source engine, sort of how they're re-making goldeneye on the source engine.. It could breath new life into DX.

Imagine all the possibilities, How many times have you wanted to pick up that can and throw it at paul, JUST TO GET A RISE out of him, I know for sure I've tried. But it never hurt him enough for him to say "Jackass" And then pull out his assault gun and whoop my ass.

Who agrees with me?

[Imperial]

It's a good idea alright, but who would be willing to take up the task?

[Siva]

If you knew how many modders there were in the source community, + The ones who are willing to learn a new engine (Raises hand), It could easily be done in a year or two.

[Mr. Tastix]

If I new how to do any of that then I'd be in! I'd love to see Deus Ex on a new Game Engine. The original DX owns but seeing it updated for once would just plain... just plain... OWN!!!

[Siva]

I just wonder, is DX abandonware?

Could we technically distribute (And make money from) a new DX distributed through steam?

And if we couldnt make money off it, we could still do it.

They made Goldeneye and didnt get sued from that.

[Moleh]

I'd suggest you all take a break from DX and get properly involved in a source mod community, and then think about this.
Source would definately be better for player counts if you made a dxmp on there, theres no arguements about that and its proven by the fact that all the mods that are going anywhere are on Source from what Ive seen.
However as an engine, Im not overkeen on it. Unless you really know what your doing in coding source and C++ and such your going to have alot of problems. It has trouble with rubber banding (when you collide with another player, you get stuck to them - its in most mods) it has wierd net code playups and some real hit registration problems where you shoot them and nothing happens even after watching the blood come from them. Melee on source is pretty flimsy too, so the DTS and CK would be kinda fucked. And it doesnt handle fire based weapons like a flamethrower too well either.
I can tell you that the lead coder for Dystopia has spent as much time trying to sort fucked up code as he has actually putting together the mod. He spends alot of time trying to optimise net code and registration code.
Couple all these engine troubles with the fact that Sources SDK isnt the most reliable set of tools and also the fact that its out of date and rarely updated, oh that and the fact that each time Valve decide to release something of their own it fucks up mods (release of DoDs fucked up all mods with major changes to the lighting system, an update to HL2 has recently fucked up textures for people that use HL2DM to run mp mods, etc) you are battling with alot of un-needed hurdles. Hell, I prefer the Unreal 2 engine over Source! Source is more for graphical impact and eye candy.

You'd be better waiting and doing it on 2k7. What remaining 'coders' you have in DXMP would pick it up quicker and it would be easier to port, comparing origional code to mod. And to make a decent mod, it will take alot longer than a year

[DarkKnight]

The DX:Source idea has already been tried, and failed.

Quite simply, it will keep failing because of two reasons;

1) Not many people in DX have a firm understanding of C++. (And by firm, I mean they don't turn pale when told to create programs in C++ from scratch.)

2) DX is a Unreal game, because of this Source will fail. This is more of a IMO, but as Mole points out, most coders in DX have knowledge of UCScript, not C++.

A bit of IMO; Source is all polish but not much else. CS:S has terrible hit-rego and HL2:DM has even worse. We'd be giving up DXMP if it was re-made on Source, unless we had a netcode team to do nothing but make it better.

[Siva]

I am going to delete everything I just said, seeing as you guys have more knowledge of the source engine than I do.

Fuck.

Now what!

We can't let the best gaming franchise go down the toilet.. now can we?

Unless we did it on the Unreal engine.... But someone is already doing that, but they're just re-making DX. I dont need that.

[DarkKnight]

I'd suggest you all take a break from DX and get properly involved in a source mod community, and then think about this.
Source would definately be better for player counts if you made a dxmp on there, theres no arguements about that and its proven by the fact that all the mods that are going anywhere are on Source from what Ive seen.
However as an engine, Im not overkeen on it. Unless you really know what your doing in coding source and C++ and such your going to have alot of problems. It has trouble with rubber banding (when you collide with another player, you get stuck to them - its in most mods) it has wierd net code playups and some real hit registration problems where you shoot them and nothing happens even after watching the blood come from them. Melee on source is pretty flimsy too, so the DTS and CK would be kinda fucked. And it doesnt handle fire based weapons like a flamethrower too well either.
I can tell you that the lead coder for Dystopia has spent as much time trying to sort fucked up code as he has actually putting together the mod. He spends alot of time trying to optimise net code and registration code.
Couple all these engine troubles with the fact that Sources SDK isnt the most reliable set of tools and also the fact that its out of date and rarely updated, oh that and the fact that each time Valve decide to release something of their own it fucks up mods (release of DoDs fucked up all mods with major changes to the lighting system, an update to HL2 has recently fucked up textures for people that use HL2DM to run mp mods, etc) you are battling with alot of un-needed hurdles. Hell, I prefer the Unreal 2 engine over Source! Source is more for graphical impact and eye candy.

You'd be better waiting and doing it on 2k7. What remaining 'coders' you have in DXMP would pick it up quicker and it would be easier to port, comparing origional code to mod. And to make a decent mod, it will take alot longer than a year

How often does the DX SDK crash?
How often do we get BSP error minefields?
How often do we make maps for hours and then auto-die as soon as we start?

No SDK is perfect.

But the Source engine can take DX to the next level now, Eye Candy is what all the kids are looking at these days, They couldnt give two shits if the story was about a happy fucking bunny.

If you can get a talented scriptwriter (Cassandra\Zodiac anyone?) And enough people behind it, this shit could get finished.

It would take years, and has a very small margin of sucess, but if we could do it, that would be the be-all end-all.

Unless your thinking we CREATE A NEW ENGINE?

And then the game would never get finished, seeing as we wouldnt be getting paid.

If you seriously wanted to make this mod, you'd need a few things;

Project lead; Someone to bark orders.
Mappers; Good ones, capable of making more then boxes.
Coder; Again good ones, capable of making an augged system.
Story writers; Yet again, good ones, it'd be a shame to waste the DX story.
Modlers; You'd need to create new models and meshs.
MP coders; To iron out any kinks in MP code.

You'd need as many quality people as you could get.

Side note; It could take as little as 6 months, or as long as 3 years, depending on who and how many is on the team.

[Siva]

I've been seriously wanting to make this mod since late '05.

Just haven't found an engine to port it to.

And then I played HL2 and Everything fell into place.

Now I'm back at square one. Fuck.

[Dae]

If you're talking about porting Deus Ex singleplayer to another engine then it's an utopia, basicly no chance to succeed. If you mean porting single player to higher version of Unreal engine - maybe it's possible, just in case you want to spend 3-4 years on this or maybe more.

Porting DXMP to Unreal engine would be relatevely easy. The hardest thing here is to port models or remake them.

[Siva]

I don't exactly want to port it, I think I'm getting myself a bit messed up.

I want to make a REAL sucessor to the DX franchise, one that doesnt shit all over everything. and leave the series left in the dark, Its not even done yet.

Alex D Merging with JC Denton? That was the most weak thing I have ever heard.

The whole game was dissapointing. I could camp everyone in that game, WHY DIDNT THEY THROW GRENADES? It was missing so much, I dont understand how a game can be worse than an original, it should never be that way.

Maybe I'm getting too involved in a game, and becoming a nerd, and thats just too damn bad then.

Its like if your dog dies, and you werent there when It died, So you get pissed off about it.

I am willing to spend my teens on this project. All 6 years of them.

[Dae]

Then it's an utopia.

[James]

I don't exactly want to port it, I think I'm getting myself a bit messed up.

I want to make a REAL sucessor to the DX franchise, one that doesnt shit all over everything. and leave the series left in the dark, Its not even done yet.

Alex D Merging with JC Denton? That was the most weak thing I have ever heard.

The whole game was dissapointing. I could camp everyone in that game, WHY DIDNT THEY THROW GRENADES? It was missing so much, I dont understand how a game can be worse than an original, it should never be that way.

Maybe I'm getting too involved in a game, and becoming a nerd, and thats just too damn bad then.

Its like if your dog dies, and you werent there when It died, So you get pissed off about it.

I am willing to spend my teens on this project. All 6 years of them.

Invisible War was amazing!

Alex D just merely merged with Helios so Helios could take advantages of the new nano augmentations Alex D carries to spread the love!

[Siva]

Ya, I really want to see the same ending but changed a little.

Having more than one ending is OKAY. But I don't like it being forced at the last minute.

In DX1 I wasnt expecting it, in DX2 I was ready and waiting for the forced decisions.

They should have it pan out from the VERY start of the game.

Really good ideas in IW, but Very..Very poorly executed.

[DarkKnight]

Then it's an utopia.

What makes you say this?

The SP would only require augs and a story line. Unless there is a huge amount of cutom work that Edios did to the unreal engine that I'm not aware of, I don't see the problem.

Or are you refering to the lack of C++ programmers?

[Siva]

Instead of the source engine, what if we used the UE3 engine? It would be more familiar to work with, and would allow more flexibility in creation?

[DarKnightKilla13]

Meh, UE3 would be a much easier and better idea. UE3 can pack some serious punch.

[Mr. Tastix]

I don't exactly want to port it, I think I'm getting myself a bit messed up.

I want to make a REAL sucessor to the DX franchise, one that doesnt shit all over everything. and leave the series left in the dark, Its not even done yet.

Alex D Merging with JC Denton? That was the most weak thing I have ever heard.

The whole game was dissapointing. I could camp everyone in that game, WHY DIDNT THEY THROW GRENADES? It was missing so much, I dont understand how a game can be worse than an original, it should never be that way.

Maybe I'm getting too involved in a game, and becoming a nerd, and thats just too damn bad then.

Its like if your dog dies, and you werent there when It died, So you get pissed off about it.

I am willing to spend my teens on this project. All 6 years of them.

As said, I'd love to see this. But are you TRULY willing to spend 3 years working on a project this big? I'd LOVE to help but don't know jack shit about C++, and I won't be able to learn it for a while (I DO want to learn it though).

Think of the time, effort and how many people you'll need to work with before saying your willing to do it for that amount of time. It will take AGES to find people who can do the kind of stuff you want them to do.

Invisible War was amazing!

Alex D just merely merged with Helios so Helios could take advantages of the new nano augmentations Alex D carries to spread the love!

Agreed, I liked DXIW, I thought it rocked! However, the majority of the DX community disagrees and that is one of the reasons why Ion Storm couldn't finish it's production of DX3. Players who've NEVER played DX1 before playing DXIW would've liked it, DX players wouldn't have.

Guess you and me are one of the few players who actually liked the game as well as the original, lol.

[DarkKnight]

As said, I'd love to see this. But are you TRULY willing to spend 3 years working on a project this big? I'd LOVE to help but don't know jack shit about C++, and I won't be able to learn it for a while (I DO want to learn it though).

Think of the time, effort and how many people you'll need to work with before saying your willing to do it for that amount of time. It will take AGES to find people who can do the kind of stuff you want them to do.

If he seriously wanted to try and pull it off, I'd sign up.

[Dae]

Then it's an utopia.

What makes you say this?

Because a teen wants to make what serious companies do, what they're getting paid for. Look, how long is UT07 in development? And it's only a shooter, without a story.
People in Deus Ex community cannot finish their mods after working for ages on them and now someone wants to make a whole fscking game. I agree that in theory it's possible, but in practice - hardly.
And complexity of making such thing isn't only about time, it's also about good leader qualities for project leader, a nice development team which will be able to work over Internet with a leader whom they have never seen in reality, and experience of this development team to work with Unreal engine 3.
Even Project: 2027, which is really far from some abstract stage of development when only story is ready, haven't managed to find proper animators for models that were already made while this project will need a whole crew of modelers, who will do as models, as animations.
Well, I do believe that nothing is impossible, especially when you have a strong desire, but do you really have it Prodigy? And do you have enough of it for next 3-5 years or maybe more for pure day and night development?

And yes, Unreal Engine 2 or 3 is certainly better for this. However, I hope you know that the process of map making there is completely different than in our good old Deus Ex.

[Siva]

Of course I want to do it, I've been thinking about it for 5+ months, Looking around forums on the internet for serious people willing to do something of this magnitude.

Recently I found that the cost of the Unreal 3 license is $200,000?

Shit.

With enough dedicated people, and enough time, It could work. No sense in not even trying...

[Chococat]

Recently I found that the cost of the Unreal 3 license is $200,000?

Sheesh, you'd get more satisfaction travelling the world with that kinda money.

Or blowing it on hookers and drugs and take-away

[Mr. Tastix]

Then it's an utopia.

What makes you say this?

Because a teen wants to make what serious companies do, what they're getting paid for. Look, how long is UT07 in development? And it's only a shooter, without a story.
People in Deus Ex community cannot finish their mods after working for ages on them and now someone wants to make a whole fscking game. I agree that in theory it's possible, but in practice - hardly.
And complexity of making such thing isn't only about time, it's also about good leader qualities for project leader, a nice development team which will be able to work over Internet with a leader whom they have never seen in reality, and experience of this development team to work with Unreal engine 3.
Even Project: 2027, which is really far from some abstract stage of development when only story is ready, haven't managed to find proper animators for models that were already made while this project will need a whole crew of modelers, who will do as models, as animations.
Well, I do believe that nothing is impossible, especially when you have a strong desire, but do you really have it Prodigy? And do you have enough of it for next 3-5 years or maybe more for pure day and night development?

And yes, Unreal Engine 2 or 3 is certainly better for this. However, I hope you know that the process of map making there is completely different than in our good old Deus Ex.

I agree with this, I know nothing about Mapping, Modding or even the neccessary Programming skills needed to make a game this huge.

If I knew how, then I'd be very happy to help out with such a game, but such skills won't come to me unless I can seek out an extremely good (but probably large) tutorial for those kinds of things, or wait 5 years when I do Programming in University.

Recently I found that the cost of the Unreal 3 license is $200,000?

Imagine trying to get this amount of money, especially at your age. You aren't at the legal age to get out loans, and to get out a loan this much and say it's for a game develpment, then, well that'll be hard.

You'll also be hard-pressed to find a development team that will work under extreme pressure and litterally no pay. If you find one, tell me. I'd be greatly surprised.

[Siva]

Looks like DX:3 will have to wait 8 years.

[Dae]

Of course I want to do it, I've been thinking about it for 5+ months, Looking around forums on the internet for serious people willing to do something of this magnitude.

Recently I found that the cost of the Unreal 3 license is $200,000?

Shit.

With enough dedicated people, and enough time, It could work. No sense in not even trying...

Is it 200,000 now? It used to be higher. You don't have to pay if you're not going to sell it. You may use Pariah engine (it's almost UE3) and build it as a mod. It's legal... I think.

You'll also be hard-pressed to find a development team that will work under extreme pressure and litterally no pay.

I think Red Orchestra's team was working for free.

[clyzm]

If this project would truly exist, we would need a shitload of modders, modelers, programmers etc. Should be done in well over a year, and also needs to unite the DXMP community so all of us could help out.

If you're really consistent with this, I'll do the modeling, eh? Just like old days

[Cozmo]

I dont see the point in a new engine... :/ im sure it would be better but DX is still playable. What would a new engine actualy do anyway? (I dont know much about these things...)

Recently I found that the cost of the Unreal 3 license is $200,000?

Sheesh, you'd get more satisfaction travelling the world with that kinda money.

Or blowing it on hookers and drugs and take-away

Why didnt i think of that?

[Siva]

Better physics, rendering, possibilities, and support for overtly-large things.

And Dae has given me more hope.

[DarkKnight]

Then it's an utopia.

What makes you say this?

Because a teen wants to make what serious companies do, what they're getting paid for. Look, how long is UT07 in development? And it's only a shooter, without a story.
People in Deus Ex community cannot finish their mods after working for ages on them and now someone wants to make a whole fscking game. I agree that in theory it's possible, but in practice - hardly.
And complexity of making such thing isn't only about time, it's also about good leader qualities for project leader, a nice development team which will be able to work over Internet with a leader whom they have never seen in reality, and experience of this development team to work with Unreal engine 3.
Even Project: 2027, which is really far from some abstract stage of development when only story is ready, haven't managed to find proper animators for models that were already made while this project will need a whole crew of modelers, who will do as models, as animations.
Well, I do believe that nothing is impossible, especially when you have a strong desire, but do you really have it Prodigy? And do you have enough of it for next 3-5 years or maybe more for pure day and night development?

And yes, Unreal Engine 2 or 3 is certainly better for this. However, I hope you know that the process of map making there is completely different than in our good old Deus Ex.

Here's my problem;

The SDK's that would be used to make DX on a different engine take care of almost all of the head ache issues, and if you build it off a pre-existing game, any bugs with the engine would be fixed in later releases.

I agree 100% that making a game from the ground up is far beyond the range of the DX community, but we are talking mod, not redevlopment. Counter Strike -is- Half Life, simply a different take on the same under lieing engine. I'd take the same approach.

I agree that it would be unlikely to be finished, just based on history, but there is a first time for everything and you never know untill you try.

As far as the project leader goes, I totally agree, hence why I'd put my hand up as a coder, not as a leader. I follow orders better then I bark them. Although the whole never seeing the peep in person wouldn't really matter...

If this project would truly exist, we would need a shitload of modders, modelers, programmers etc. Should be done in well over a year, and also needs to unite the DXMP community so all of us could help out.

If you're really consistent with this, I'll do the modeling, eh? Just like old days

The biggest time eater would be mapping and modeling, IMO. Most engines these days are more coder friendly as apposed to the older ones. Personally, I'd be more interested in making it in C++, but only because I prefer it to UCScript. (UCScript reminds me of PHP, and although I know my way around PHP, I don't like PHP.)