Deus Ex Alpha

Is this legal?

of course not. why do you ask?

Shinobi is FBI in disguise.

No offence dae, but I see no logic in this. If someone wants to get pirate software, why would they pay for it? I only download warez because they're free. If they cost money, then I might aswell buy the real deal.

He's selling the real deal for cheaper as it's cheaper in Russia, this is why he has been trying to offer Left 4 Dead and Saints Row 2 because they're dirt cheap.

Yeah but it's still illegal, and therefore has no advantage over just getting it from a warez site. Fact of the matter is, it makes more sense to get it from a warez site, because it's free. The only benefit of getting it legally is the fact that it's legal, and you can have support etc etc. The actual shit is the same.

I only download warez because they're free. If they cost money, then I might aswell buy the real deal.

Except the real Kaspersky is like more than double the price Dae is offering! + I spent forever looking for keys, they'd just get blacklisted a day later, easier to get it cheap then waste ages looking for a key really.

~MainMan~ wrote:If someone wants to get pirate software, why would they pay for it? I only download warez because they're free. If they cost money, then I might aswell buy the real deal.

I don't see your point. The software & games by themselves are absolutely legal. You get all the official updates and support, for games you also get multiplayer, but you don't get a CD in a shiny box and printed user-guide on several languages which you will never read anyway.

In terms of moral, you still appreciate the producer with your money.

E.g. you can take my Kaspersky key, bring it to support.kaspersky.com, register with it there and get official support. Same goes with Microsoft Office and all Steam games. Noone cares where you bought software unless you're a company.

The business is not legal because obviously we don't pay VAT, customs tax and shitloads of other taxes, we aren't authorized to resell without permission of the producer etc etc.

~MainMan~ wrote:Yeah but it's still illegal, and therefore has no advantage over just getting it from a warez site. Fact of the matter is, it makes more sense to get it from a warez site, because it's free. The only benefit of getting it legally is the fact that it's legal, and you can have support etc etc. The actual shit is the same.

As I said on another forum.

"You just hate everything don'tcha? You're just a big pound of hate, aint'cha?"

Get my drift? I'd rather buy from Dae even if it isn't totally legal. It's not really illegal on our end, we can just deny everything and say we knew nothing about it (even if we did know I don't see how we could get done for it).

It's illegal on the suppliers end for the various reasons Dae stated (mostly taxes I'd bet). As for this quote by you.

~MainMan~ wrote:The actual shit is the same.

No, it's not. Downloading the game off a warez site is a cracked version, and may even be filled to the brim with viruses. You don't know how clean it is, if it's clean at all. You won't get support for it and you can't play on VAC secured servers with Steam supported games if they're cracked.

These are the SAME GAMES you would buy from the Steam Store. The only real difference is you're not buying them from the Steam Store and you're buying them for a crapload cheaper.

Same key, different payment method.

Dae wrote:[...] E.g. you can take my Kaspersky key, bring it to support.kaspersky.com, register with it there and get official support. Same goes with Microsoft Office and all Steam games. Noone cares where you bought software unless you're a company.

The business is not legal because obviously we don't pay VAT, customs tax and shitloads of other taxes, we aren't authorized to resell without permission of the producer etc etc.

Okay, so basically it's halfway between warez and legal? I see the benefits in that case, but for me personally, I would just stick with warez, because I don't need to face online verification / multiplayer etc (I don't really play video games.) It's a good idea though, and I do own a genuine legal Kaspersky key for that reason. When it runs out, I may look here

Psychotic wrote:"You just hate everything don'tcha? You're just a big pound of hate, aint'cha?"

How immature are you? Just because I disagree with something, doesn't mean that I 'hate' it, for the simple reason that I am over 10 years old.

~MainMan~ wrote:Okay, so basically it's halfway between warez and legal?

Just like reselling your used games on Ebay or to your friends.

(Even though the producers don't benefit from that at all, so it's even worse).

~MainMan~ wrote:

Psychotic wrote:"You just hate everything don'tcha? You're just a big pound of hate, aint'cha?"

How immature are you? Just because I disagree with something, doesn't mean that I 'hate' it, for the simple reason that I am over 10 years old.

Yeah? What's your point?

I may be immature but you just flame everyone cause you think it's "cool". When in truth, it serves no point whatsoever. So I say again: What's your point?

Knew this thing wasn't that legit

nofuckingclue wrote:Knew this thing wasn't that legit

Technically, it is. He just doesn't have the right to sell it. It's like selling anything without a license.

I'm still fairly sure it's "legal" for us to buy it if we "didn't know" they don't have a license.

He actually does have the right to sell it, What law says you can't buy games and then sell them? hell he lives in russia, he could probably host child porn and get away with it (from what i've heard about russia and china, the laws on internet copyrights arent too great, for the publisher haha).

This way everybody is winning
the publisher gets money of which they normally wouldnt get because of warez
dae gets money of which he normally wouldnt get because he doesnt get money for doing nothing
we get a cool piece of software or game for cheaper, and it works with steam/its legit so you can get the updates and you can play on the real servers.

majinbuu1023 wrote:He actually does have the right to sell it, What law says you can't buy games and then sell them? hell he lives in russia, he could probably host child porn and get away with it (from what i've heard about russia and china, the laws on internet copyrights arent too great, for the publisher haha).

The laws on copyrights and internet piracy are pretty shit, but child porn is a whole different category.

majinbuu1023 wrote:This way everybody is winning
the publisher gets money of which they normally wouldnt get because of warez
dae gets money of which he normally wouldnt get because he doesnt get money for doing nothing
we get a cool piece of software or game for cheaper, and it works with steam/its legit so you can get the updates and you can play on the real servers.

As far as I understand it, the publisher still gets paid. So they shouldn't really give a shit that much. It's just the whole legality issue of not selling with a license.

Yes obviously child porn is a different category, but you *could* get away with it, actually doing it is stooping way to low, IMO.

Dae wrote:

~MainMan~ wrote:If someone wants to get pirate software, why would they pay for it? I only download warez because they're free. If they cost money, then I might aswell buy the real deal.

I don't see your point. The software & games by themselves are absolutely legal. You get all the official updates and support, for games you also get multiplayer, but you don't get a CD in a shiny box and printed user-guide on several languages which you will never read anyway.

In terms of moral, you still appreciate the producer with your money.

E.g. you can take my Kaspersky key, bring it to support.kaspersky.com, register with it there and get official support. Same goes with Microsoft Office and all Steam games. Noone cares where you bought software unless you're a company.

The business is not legal because obviously we don't pay VAT, customs tax and shitloads of other taxes, we aren't authorized to resell without permission of the producer etc etc.

I actually don't give a monkeys if it is legal. I woudl feel more comfortable knowing that the practice is legal (I've checked, it kinda is), it's just the business which is illegal.

Y'know, this could always actually turn into a legit outfit... I'm serious. Get yourselves VAT registered, and registered as either a partnership or sole trader or however the business laws work in your country, I'm not proficient in Russian law, lol.

Anyhoo - the developers get compensated for their hard work, the consumer gets a totally legitimate video game for a fraction of the RRP in their respective countries (unless you're Russian lol!) and everyone benefits.

...except the government.... and OH NOEZ!! Thats just something I REEEEALLY care about......

Shinobi wrote:Y'know, this could always actually turn into a legit outfit... I'm serious. Get yourselves VAT registered, and registered as either a partnership or sole trader or however the business laws work in your country, I'm not proficient in Russian law, lol.

It doesn't make a lot of sense with small profits we get.

Additionally, we can't legally avoid price discrimination without violating terms of some agreements with the producers.

Dae wrote:

Shinobi wrote:Y'know, this could always actually turn into a legit outfit... I'm serious. Get yourselves VAT registered, and registered as either a partnership or sole trader or however the business laws work in your country, I'm not proficient in Russian law, lol.

It doesn't make a lot of sense with small profits we get.

Additionally, we can't legally avoid price discrimination without violating terms of some agreements with the producers.

How could they argue what price you're selling the games for so long as they get some form of cut?

The reasno ya get small profits is because of the low number of customers you probably have.

Expand your coverage of your target audience. Try "cracking" a strata sample of your target audience in different countries or on different message boards.

As far as legality goes, Dae & Co are undercutting the RRP in individual companies by a means which isn't strictly illegal....

...oh well, Legal or not, get L4D working and I'm in lol

Psychotic wrote:How could they argue what price you're selling the games for so long as they get some form of cut?

The logic is that we don't sell software but a right to use it. To sell a right we need a right to sell it (sounds great eh).