Destiny & religion

[Alex]

Two things:

Do you believe in destiny?
Are you religious?

And.. why?


My own answers will come later.

[Tantalus]

I believe in fate (well, mostly), a predetermined path for the universe to follow.

I am not religious simply because we have had no such contact with a deity that is supported by evidence; even though I believe the prophets etc. did exist but their stories were morphed by various different factors. I also feel that if a superior sentient being did create the universe (which still is logical, judging by the design of things) then he/she/it must have no compassion for our insignificant lives. Religion has sparked holy wars, racism, xenophobia, sexism and slavery and that is not the way I want to live my life with an establishment based on that.

[Spiderbot01]

Religion has sparked holy wars, racism, xenophobia, sexism and slavery and that is not the way I want to live my life with an establishment based on that.

I always find people who use that argument funny. The vast majority of people of any faith have not sparked any of what you have just described, because of a handful you immediately refuse to follow any form of religion? Similarly, I find it amusing (Im saying this in general, not just aiming it at you!) that people will say this, yet happily consume goods made by horrendous multinationals who are quite happy to abuse, treat badly and unfairly and be willing to pay people next to nothing to make you your shoes, clothes and food. I thought slavery was abolished, but apparently laws don't matter when it comes to a pair of shoes.

I'm not trying to be on a high horse, or say that you have a real choice in the matter, but I'd rather you looked at your viewpoints instead of whitewashing something.

[clyzm]

I don't believe in destiny. Humans, because they are sentient, can modify their fate. I don't believe in religion either, but I don't disrespect those who do.

Also @ Max,
Sorry but he's quite right on a few of those points. Christianity during the Crusades was a tyrannical power. The Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, German execution/torture methods during the Middle Ages all lead to religion. This wasn't a select group of individuals, either, but entire communities, states, and even countries.

I'm not just bashing on Christianity, either. Islam, Hinduism, all religions have a history of "showing their faith" to others. In the end I believe people CAN practice the religion in peace, but that doesn't mean they always have done it that way.

About the poor people you're talking about. It all depends on value. $500 a year might be considered poor around here, but in those countries its considered a rather normal or slightly above average pay. They need to feed their families, so they work and manufacture goods for companies. In the end they receive at least a salary. Yes, they may not work under the best conditions. Yes, sometimes the work is very backbreaking. And yes, sometimes they do not make enough money. But at least they are getting paid. It's nothing close to slavery.

[Tantalus]

Ah, yes that is indeed a pitfall in my argument. However the difference between the two is I am simply one person trying to protest the running of consumerism, and I can't exactly say "right, I am not going to involve myself with this injustice; I will no longer wear clothes!". If I were to see some food, that I needed, that was fair trade, I would buy it without hesitation but the system is still encoiled with the method of maximising profit. Perhaps one day there will be a solution that we will bring on ourselves but right now it is an issue that requires worldwide ambition.

That, of course, encurs another argument: why would such an all-powerful, all-loving deity leave these people without a choice? Why has he/she/it not interfered with anything before?

EDIT: And to the fate thing I find the 'Split Universe' theory/hypothesis to be logical.

[Mr. Tastix]

I'm on the fence about destiny and religion. I believe people can change their paths, yes. But in the same respect, if fate exists then it was their fate to change said path.

I believe everything happens for a reason, no matter how insignificant or retarded the reason may be. Or if that reason was predetermined or not, it still happened for some reason or another. You don't just go outside and shoot someone in cold blood for "no reason". You did it because you were bored? Just wanted to? Because it was an unconscious decision? Either way, you still done it even if you didn't mean/want to.

As for religion. I love to debate about religion. Now, I'm no believer in God, but I don't have any problem against people who do (they just have a problem with me, at least they did when I pronounced my Atheism). I'm no longer an Atheist, I'm more Agnostic. I honestly can't see how we can just exist, that makes no sense. So we exist to breed, fuck up the world we live in and then die and that's the end of it? That just seems rather hard to believe.

I don't know if one God made us of 25,000 did, it doesn't matter to me (though I can't fathom the idea of one God making the entire world either, which is why I believe in polytheism to some extent). God, Hell, Heaven, the Afterlife, Resurrection or Reincarnation? To me it's all other sides of the coin and I'll find out what's true and what's not when I die.

[MainMan]

I don't believe in destiny, or predestination, because I like to feel as though I have power over my life.

I am religious (Christian), but I think you're wrong in asking for reasoning behind it ("And.. why?").
You can't 'explain' faith. Perhaps it gives me something to aim for, I don't know.

[synthetic]

Do you believe in destiny?

Yes. We make our own destiny by being who we are, and unless we change what we are, we cannot change our destiny. And because it is hard to change yourself, it also becomes hard to change your future. A form of predestination. Do I believe in something else that sets our course? Not unless you let it affect you.

Are you religious?

I believe that all people are religious. Do I believe in the existence of god or gods? Of course I do. If you count all the people on the earth who believe it does exist, then naturally it does exist. I see it as an easy way out. Everybody needs a nanny, and if you dont have one but really need one, you create one (or in most cases: accept one that someone else has created).
Although I understand this and the positive aspects of belief and the effect it has on life, I can't help but to find it immoral to support complex religions. It would be like supporting widespread heavy use of LSD to create fantastic art.
Even if you dont accept the old molester in a fluffy cloud, you probably find yourself in the middle of some sort of superstitious practice at one point or another in life anyway.


As you can see from both replies, I dont think the existence is important at all. What is important is whether or not YOU believe it exists.
Not to appear as someone who is avoiding the question often considered Important by the simple-minded: "Does it Exist? Lyk 4 Reel?" I will, as a rational being, simply say that no, i dont think it does.

When I heard that someone was using, or attempting to use, the quantum computer in order to scientifically prove that god exists, or something along the lines of, I grinned all day long.

[Tantalus]

I don't believe in destiny, or predestination, because I like to feel as though I have power over my life.

I am religious (Christian), but I think you're wrong in asking for reasoning behind it ("And.. why?").
You can't 'explain' faith. Perhaps it gives me something to aim for, I don't know.

On that note I would like to rephrase my opinion slightly. I do not judge people who have chosen to live their life in such a way or follow a religion. And would like to say that people who use the Bible (for example) as stories for an example to the way they should behave and aspire to I have the utmost respect for because they are trying a method to improve themselves. Furthermore the Bible does have a lot to offer in the ways of morals, just when they are interpreted as a magna carta is where negative effects can spawn from religion. But "treat my outlooks with respect and I shall return the favour" is my ultimate outlook.

[Spiderbot01]

Science writer Gregg Easterbrook explains the required explosive power-balance of the Big Bang, saying that, "Researchers have calculated that, if the ratio of matter and energy to the volume of space ...had not been within about one-quadrillionth of one percent of ideal at the moment of the Big Bang, the incipient universe would have collapsed back on itself or suffered runaway relativity effects" (My emphasis.) (ref. G.Easterbrook, "Science Sees the Light", The New Republic, Oct.12, 1998, p.26).

THE PROBABILITY: The chances we can conservatively assign to this: It was about one chance out of 10 to the power of 20 that the force of the Big Bang could have randomly been properly balanced with the mass & gravity of the universe, in order for stars and planets to form, so that life could exist here in our cosmos.

brb, playing the lottery. and with odds like those flying about, I suggest you all do the same.

[Tantalus]

Then again there could have been various failed attempts, like a star igniting; that does not take one attempt.

[Cozmo]

I don't believe in a certain religion, but I believe in something. I can't see how religions can be so specific, seeing as how we don't really have any solid evidence of a God.

It's not because I think "the world's beautiful etc" that's just how we percieve it, but the fact organic life and evolution are even possible is just strange.

[synthetic]

I don't believe in a certain religion, but I believe in something. I can't see how religions can be so specific, seeing as how we don't really have any solid evidence of a God.

It's not because I think "the world's beautiful etc" that's just how we percieve it, but the fact organic life and evolution are even possible is just strange.

There is one part of your post that I definitely agree with. Detailed religions. I cant stand them. When humans can all be considered religious, then the species as a whole can also be called creative. Massive religious systems have more creative in them than religion. Sometimes man has had to even dumb it down - Martin Luther for example. This is also why I tend to prefer the religions of "uncivilized" cultures.