Deus Ex Alpha

Posted: **Fri Apr 08, 11 11:40 pm**

Hi,

I'm a longtime fan of Deus Ex since the old days in 2000. I also played the sequel DXIW, but was very disappointed that there was no level editor released for it, because I like to edit maps in UnrealEd which I am experienced in, especially for Deus Ex!

So now that DXHR game is coming out soon, I wondered if the new game will ship with any level editor or if there'll be any editor available as a separate download. All I know about the technical details of DXHR so far is that it won't be based on Unreal Engine.

Does anyone know more information about the DXHR engine and level editor?

Oh and one more question: Will it be possible to convert maps from old Deus Ex to DXHR?

Thanks in advance.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 12:15 am**

Crystal Dynamics.

No chance of an editor, too obscure of an engine for it to make business sense.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 6:39 am**

Tantalus wrote:Crystal Dynamics.

No confirmation of a SDK.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 6:51 pm**

Alright, thanks everyone.

If they don't release a SDK then it's a bad business decision imo. SDKs are what keep games alive. See DX1 ofcourse. After a decade the modding community is still active. And it will probably be for another decade if DXHR turns out like DXIW... :wink:

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 8:09 pm**

Maybe DLC is killing these software kit releases.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 8:11 pm**

China wrote:Maybe DLC is killing these software kit releases.

This is a terrible excuse, SDKs exist for games with 'secure' DLC systems.

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 11 9:31 pm**

James wrote:
China wrote:Maybe DLC is killing these software kit releases.

This is a terrible excuse, SDKs exist for games with 'secure' DLC systems.

Yeah, they do. Gears of War PC pops up in my mind. I first installed the game some 2 years ago. Had the GoW1 UEd included aswell, so that was pretty cool.

Bulletstorm PC also is DLC. It's based on Unreal Engine 3.5, so the new UEd should be included naturally, but I have yet to install and play the game to check this out...

Anyway, if there's anything you can rely on then it's the guys from Epic who ship all their retail PC versions with their Unreal Editor included, regardless if it's UT3, GoW or any other UE based game who is directly developed and published by Epic.

The only people you cannot rely on for this matter are Eidos, I have to say. They didn't ship any UEd for DXIW, although it ran on Unreal Engine. And they didn't ship any UEd for Thief 3. But at least they released an official Thief 3 SDK download later on.

Now DXHR seems to be a completey different case. Different game engine and different developer. I don't know much about Square Enix, Crystal Dynamics, whoever. Are those the same guys who developed System Shock 2, Deus Ex and the original Thief series or is it a completely new team of devs?

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 11 5:34 pm**

Square Enix.

Final Fantasy series (at least the modern ones).

That is all.

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 11 5:43 pm**

It is a complete different team of developers and their first major project.

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 11 7:10 pm**

James wrote:It is a complete different team of developers and their first major project.

Merely answering who Square Enix are, not the developers of Deus Ex.

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 11 7:14 pm**

Final Fantasy is not their biggest commercial achievement.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 11 6:50 am**

Dragon Warrior III, and you know it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 11 9:09 am**

There will almost certainly be no SDK if what I read is correct. No MP pisses me off more, though. I'm kinda holding out a bit of hope for DXMP:HR.... ya never know, it may actually turn into something refreshing enough for ~DX1 to have a new lease ofl ife

fuck it and fuck SE and EM.... nah joikin, so far so good but no mp = poo

Posted: **Wed Apr 13, 11 9:27 am**

I'm 100% happy that DXHR will not be shipping with a multi-player. It allows them to solely develop and focus on the single-player.

Remember that on release Deus Ex did not ship with the multi-player because it did not exist, the idea for it was created via fan modding.

I'm cautiously optimistic and convinced they know best to release an SDK for DXHR. They should understand that allowing more resources for fans to modify the game will provide more content through user submissions and allow the life of the game to flower for years.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:29 am**

James wrote:I'm cautiously optimistic and convinced they know best to release an SDK for DXHR. They should understand that allowing more resources for fans to modify the game will provide more content through user submissions and allow the life of the game to flower for years.

Exactly. I have the same opinion. There are just 2 possible outcomes:

DXHR + Editor = Hardcore Modders leave DX1 and focus on new engine, DXHR keeps going on for years!
DXHR without Editor = Hardcore Modders stay in DX1, DXHR dies quickly.

[EDIT]
Hardcore Modders = Modders who are very experienced and keep a game alive by releasing mods on a regular basis.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:33 am**

Lurker wrote:
James wrote:I'm cautiously optimistic and convinced they know best to release an SDK for DXHR. They should understand that allowing more resources for fans to modify the game will provide more content through user submissions and allow the life of the game to flower for years.

Exactly. I have the same opinion. There are just 2 possible outcomes:

DXHR + Editor = Hardcore Modders leave DX1 and focus on new engine, DXHR keeps going on for years!
DXHR without Editor = Hardcore Modders stay in DX1, DXHR dies quickly.

Hardcore modders don't stay in DX1 because it has an editor. The ones that stay in DX1 (and majority of the coders in DX1) aren't hardcore modders. Hardcore modders try editing files without an official editor.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:33 am**

If it's on the same level as DX1 in terms of gameplay then I doubt HR will die off quickly. Although it won't have the longevity of DX1 without a modding community.

I really hope an MP component will come along eventually. REALLY hope.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:38 am**

Alex is right about hardcore modders, but it will be much easier for Eidos to make it accessible for everyone. There's not much people can do with typical restrictions set in place for games without SDKs such as de-compiling encrypted files.

It's just hard effort.

I'm sure the community at Through The Looking Glass will be as disappointed as much as the DX modding communities if Thief 4 doesn't come with an SDK either, have you played the Thief fan missions?, utter brilliance.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:48 am**

Alex wrote:Hardcore modders try editing files without an official editor.

It may be possible, but only to a limited degree, such as replacing skins, textures, sound files and other stuff in the gamefile packages, providing that the packages are not encrypted.

But creating completely new maps/levels without an editor is a difficult task and hardly possible! It would require hacking the actual engine and coding a custom editor and code compiler (ucc-style) for it. I don't think that even the best modders and hackers could do that.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 11:49 am**

Exactly. Incidentally James, I've played some Thief FMs. WOW. That is all.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:21 pm**

Lurker wrote:
Alex wrote:Hardcore modders try editing files without an official editor.

It may be possible, but only to a limited degree, such as replacing skins, textures, sound files and other stuff in the gamefile packages, providing that the packages are not encrypted.

But creating completely new maps/levels without an editor is a difficult task and hardly possible! It would require hacking the actual engine and coding a custom editor and code compiler (ucc-style) for it. I don't think that even the best modders and hackers could do that.

UCC-style? I may hope you don't mean that you want an UC-style language? If coding will be possible, it will be - of course - an entire different language.

New maps will most likely only be possible for people with more technical/advanced knowledge, and not for people who just try some stuff in an editor. It's already possible to export entire maps out of this engine, and I think it's also possible to modify them, I don't think they successfully imported them back in yet. Replacing skins and textures is already possible (even though Deus Ex 3 might have more secure packages). We'll just have to wait.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:23 pm**

im definitely going to query

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:24 pm**

What gets me is that the developers obviously have an SDK - what's the logical reason for not releasing it publicly?

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:30 pm**

correct me if im wrong:
SDK is more of a fancy package name given to the player community with modding tools

there's also tons of mumbo jumbo like public licenses (Crystal Dynamics rights or whatever, or whoever actually built their engine) and compiling it together for the public. the rights part might actually be harder.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:33 pm**

Probably isn't refined enough for the public. Keep in mind that deus ex was just an edited unreal engine, which was why the SDK wasn't that hard to release.

Crystal Dynamics is the in-house engine of Eidos if i remember correctly. They see no reason to spend time on releasing it to the public. When you make an SDK public, it isn't just pressing the big red button to make it available to everyone, easy to use and well documented.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:35 pm**

exactly, it's hard work.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:35 pm**

Yeah. I once tried (well thought about trying) to create a team and make a simple MP shooter, in the same vein as DXMP, too me ages to find a decent engine. I did find one but then gave up.

Legal shite = more beuracratic red tape.

PS: in case anyone is ever looking for a cool engine its crystal space.

anyhoo - remains to be seen if SE/EM release an SDK. They haven't formally said no.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 12:59 pm**

Lurker wrote:
Alex wrote:Hardcore modders try editing files without an official editor.

It may be possible, but only to a limited degree, such as replacing skins, textures, sound files and other stuff in the gamefile packages, providing that the packages are not encrypted.

But creating completely new maps/levels without an editor is a difficult task and hardly possible! It would require hacking the actual engine and coding a custom editor and code compiler (ucc-style) for it. I don't think that even the best modders and hackers could do that.

Tip:

don't tell Alex how things are done.
:lol:

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 1:03 pm**

Alex wrote:UCC-style? I may hope you don't mean that you want an UC-style language? If coding will be possible, it will be - of course - an entire different language.

UCC is the comand-line code compiler for UnrealScript. When I talked about UCC-style compiler for DXHR I meant similar code compiler for whatever language DXHR is going to use.

And sure I would want and prefer UnrealScript over any other language. Epic's C++ based language has proven itself to be one of the best programming languages for game development. Thousands of modders in the Unreal Tournament 3 Modding Community use it every day. Not to mention DX1 modders.

As I implied in my very first post, I am experienced with those things. I started modding for Unreal Engine since the days of old Unreal in 1998. Learning an entirely new engine, new language and new level editor would make me a newbie again.

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 11 1:13 pm**

Mastakilla wrote:Tip:

don't tell Alex how things are done.

Heh. Why not?

Deus Ex Alpha

DXHR Level Editor

DXHR Level Editor