Bioshock Infinite

[Siva]

A shame you feel that way, Jay.

Especially about the story. It does have it's holes, especially when it comes to certain game mechanics that are never explained, but as for the story being self serving I feel it was much, much more than adequate. Mainly due to the way it is presented.

Also, I feel that the Letuces might just be the best characters in any form of fiction I've read, written or seen. (Not in terms of depth, or anything frivolous like that, but in terms of the interplay.)

Essentially, the reason I rate it so highly is because as Tantalus said, it's an experience. An experience that came alive for me to equal much more than the sum of it's parts.

The biggest problem with this game is I don't want any more of it. I don't want any DLC because it won't be satisfying enough in terms of length or variety. I don't want a sequel because that is a cop out when the story is succinct. I don't even want another Bioshock game lest they put it on the moon or something equally stupid. An analogy for how I feel about it would be, getting given a really, really nice car. But it has no cupholders.

[James]

ddd

[Tantalus]

I do empathise with your viewpoint, consistent things people are getting caught up on are the art style, the environment, characters and the use of the skyhook.

All these ingredients should be features to larger more sophisticated gameplay. Instead, people focus on these elements and laud it as art. Personally I've never understood why people think video games can be art, just because they look pretty or have an interesting storyline does not make them fucking masterpieces of art. Rockcock64 probably said it best: "basketball isn't art, so why should video games be art?"

Doesn't mean that the game itself is bad, I would suggest it has its own merits as a storytelling 'experience' which some people might find entertaining. There are other games, like Dark Souls for instance, that base its engagement around playing the game, so entertainment derives from a practical 'experience'. And I imagine those are the games you prefer. Both can be fun, in different ways.

I had similar sentiments for the first Bioshock game, great atmosphere but supremely overrated in its importance and innovation. If I come into Infinite with this mindset, I don't think I'll be disappointed.

[James]

You should play the game.

Rockcock64 is right but it doesn't mean that some videogames can be art without sacrificing gameplay. Team ICO games are a poster child for it. A lot of games have a great story like [insert Chris Avellone game] but sacrifice the gameplay or quality of it, a lot of popular/cult WRPGs have a problem with making good gameplay too. It is no secret that I have complained how dated the original Deus Ex was compared to others shooters but Hell at least it was good or great as a whole package. Bioshock Infinite fails to reach proper art other than brilliant design. Let's be honest, Half Life 2 (2004) was much better than Infinite in terms of story innovation (including annoying non-skippable cut-scenes done inside the game engine!) in a western videogame. Why do I keep mentioning western games? Well this game was hyped up as something you'd never see in a videogame before... fuck me, half of the JRPGs [spoiler]I've played in the past did Groundhog Day![/spoiler]

Hell, Bioshock 2 did the whole [spoiler]magical daughter being siphoned for her power by parents[/spoiler] thing much better than Infinite! That was a cash-in!

I'll tell you about 'experiences' in gameplay too. How is this even a good experience for someone who is a fan of videogames? I've seen this all before in games, most things done in Bioshock Infinite have been done before better. Look at my example again, there's something wrong when a videogame from 1993 gives it a run for its money or rather an enemy related to the series that was more iconic and more fun to fight against with real reward, which I don't think Bioshock Infinite has because [spoiler]YOU DON'T FIGHT SONGBIRD, WHAT THE FLYING FUCK?![/spoiler]

I know what Bioshock Infinite was aiming to be a lot of things, but for a seasoned fan of videogames it fails to reach a lot of standards raised by games in the past. No big surprise, this is videogaming in 2013. I'm not saying the game is bad, but it is terribly average. A lot of money be it $100m or not was put into the game and it does not show the quality of gameplay a lot of forgotten games or classics have touched upon.

I am not lowering my standards, especially when some cunt released Demon's Souls and Dark Souls within the last 4 years as a poster child for videogames not being stale and exciting. Mark my words, like fuck is bi-weekly first person shooter #43 will be even noteworthy beyond a few weeks after its release except when it gets put into lists for GOTY or cool best games ever lists with the post-MW1 COD series or League or Legends placed highly too.

[Tantalus]

Well, like movies, shit gets rehashed. Mainstream video games are coming into an adolescence period, the very foundation of games are based on the classics; as well they should be. I don't think you should lower your standards, but games are inevitably becoming much more like movies (a few (if that) choice and original gems every year) as companies rip-off each other ad nauseum. Why innovate when there is a perfectly functioning (and marketable) formula readily available?

At least this generation has made more people savvy with game engines and allowed for development of their own titles. Unfortunately, a lot of these indie games rely on nostalgia, 2D side-scrolling, 8 bit aesthetics, basic mechanics, boring and pretentious 'art' messages...or they're Steam Greenlight titles.

[James]

We're nowhere near the golden years of cinema, honestly except for technology I think we're regressing in videogame development as we're too focused on emulating the success and why people go to movies and enjoy any trashy film.

[Tantalus]

Good Lord no, but what we're experiencing in cinema is exactly what is just beginning to emerge with games: re-release/steal original ideas.

[James]

ddd

[James]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'M AN IDIOT

But yeah Bioshock 1 is shitting on Infinite so far

[Tantalus]

I was out drinking, still streaming?

[James]

ddd

[Tantalus]

Appreciate the title. At home, so internet speed is slow as dripping honey.

[James]

IM BAD AT HACKING

[Tantalus]

Yeeeeaaaahh I noticed that.

You going through the entire series? Perhaps you could do a runthrough of System Shock 2 to compare.

[James]

I already know too well System Shock shits all over them except for melee.

Also the problem I had with hacking is that I was too afraid to click on objects as I didn't want my mind to be overwhelmed from the choice. Turns out it's better to just click.

[Tantalus]

Well, it would be cool to go through.

[Aidan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'M AN IDIOT

But yeah Bioshock 1 is shitting on Infinite so far

Yeah I too was wondering why you were playing the first game again.

[James]

ddd

[James]

Right, clear thoughts on this now. Bioshock Infinite is definitely not a very good shooter for shooter fans and the story is the weakest in the Shock series.

[Psychotic]

Now then, it's clearly obvious that you have a very distinct notion of what a video game is/should be. With your dismissal of Tomb Raider as an attempt to create an experience and judging from the reaction to Protocol's comment on it being a great single player experience, I think your values are set in stone.

I would argue that both Protocol and James have interesting philosophies on game design, of which I agree with both on numerous things but honestly, Tomb Raider (2013) as an experience is fine but as a game is fails.

BioShock Infinite looks similar.

Developers these days seem far too interested in turning their game into some sort of interactive movie. It doesn't work, and not everyone enjoys it.

Sidenote: Why do people still believe games deserve merit based on the difficulty to create or the hype they cause? People should be scrutinizing the hell out of games, that way you might actually get better ones.

[James]

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/201 ... bad-gaming

[UT]

I have it, but i didn't finish it yet. Heard the ending is a real madness. x)

[Aidan]

I don't have it yet. Should I buy it?

[James]

ha

[Aidan]

ha

Okay thanks.

[Psychotic]

I found the gameplay to be generic and the "boss fights" to be a pain in the neck but the story was interesting enough to keep me occupied. Biggest mindfuck ever (I had to go back to get some things, largely because a lot of it isn't discussed directly so you don't necessarily find out unless you explore excessively), but that's what you get with quantum physics, I suppose.

Though I don't think throwing a bunch of information at the player about 30 minutes before the credits is a wise thing to do. They did that with Mass Effect 3, as well, and it ended horribly (though not because of an information overflow).

[spoiler]Also paradoxes and shit.[/spoiler]

It's not the worst game I've played. Quite frankly it's one of the better ones this generation, at least in terms of storyline and character development, but in regards to the actual gameplay it's pretty generic.

I still found both the game and it's ending infinitely more satisfying than Dishonored's, however. Dishonored's entire story pisses me off. As does Tomb Raider's, now that I think about it.

[Clancy Stein]

I see viedeogames as an artform because they evoke ideas... like art just does. The beauty of something artistic is the aesthetic lure to retain your attention to it, and thus express more through the captivation of the senses.

[clyzm]

I see viedeogames as an artform because they evoke ideas... like art just does. The beauty of something artistic is the aesthetic lure to retain your attention to it, and thus express more through the captivation of the senses.

Watch out guys we got a shakespeare here

[Aidan]

I see viedeogames as an artform because they evoke ideas... like art just does. The beauty of something artistic is the aesthetic lure to retain your attention to it, and thus express more through the captivation of the senses.

Watch out guys we got a shakespeare here

Lol yeah, and Clancy you should save that for another game dude.

[James]

I see viedeogames as an artform because they evoke ideas... like art just does. The beauty of something artistic is the aesthetic lure to retain your attention to it, and thus express more through the captivation of the senses.

Problem is that games focus on looking good rather than being games.