Monitor Thread

[Siva]

Building a PC come May, I don't really need advice on the parts it's not rocket science

What I came to talk to you about are monitors.

I originally was going to ask about 5ms vs 2ms and all that, but after doing some research it turns out a lot of manufacturers just lie and state grey-to-grey times and all that, which doesn't interest me.

So I'm going for the brightest and the prettiest monitor, and if I don't like it, I'm sending it back.

I am not buying a IPS because I cannot conceive a single reason to buy one

Not spending more than £170, size I'm looking for is 21"-22", as I will be planning to buy two more of the monitor in future.

Also, no huge bezels. For the same reason as above.



This is currently my frontrunner. Pretty as hell, '2ms' response time, LED backlit, not a massive bezel, touch sens buttons, DVI VGA HDMI. Cons would be viewing angle (as with all TN monitors) and non-adjustable height, neither of those I care about. However it likely does not have the best colour to it, which could be somewhat alleviated by callibration I suppose.

So post your monitors or monitors you found to be good.

[clyzm]

I'm on three ASUS 20" backlit LED with speakers right now, they haven't failed me yet and they're very durable, but I really hate how thick they are and the bezel.

That being said, I really like AOC's monitors. Made in China, yeah, so sometimes they don't come with DVI cables (only VGA), but they do have DVI ports. They're backlit, the contrast ratio is something like 5,000,000:1 and they look really nice. Also, this:



A 22" you can get for like $179.

I also recommend Hanns-G, underrated brand in terms of quality, they have some really great monitors, such as this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824254058

[Tantalus]

Don't poo-poo IPS monitors, they've got picture reproduction WAAAAAAY ahead of TN, they last longer and they have the correct response time and contrast ratio shown.

Although, even the economical option (e-IPS) is not within your price range.

I apologise but I can be of little help for TN monitors, I've heard Samsung are good.

[Psychotic]

Don't poo-poo IPS monitors, they've got picture reproduction WAAAAAAY ahead of TN, they last longer and they have the correct response time and contrast ratio shown.

The colour range of an IPS seems to be more suited for those in the industries of photography or graphic design.

If you're primarily a gamer - which I'm guessing is what Protocol is building his PC for - then TN monitors typically have higher response times.

[Poor]

I got a 20 inch Samsung SyncMaster. After two years, the screen wouldn't turn on and the power light would just blink. Apparently Samsung is suffering from a capacitor plague and it is affecting many of their products. I'm using an old CRT while I wait for my order of new capacitors.

[Siva]

That being said, I really like AOC's monitors. Made in China, yeah, so sometimes they don't come with DVI cables (only VGA), but they do have DVI ports. They're backlit, the contrast ratio is something like 5,000,000:1 and they look really nice. Also, this:

That is very pretty. I think I still prefer the LG one due to the base though.

Don't poo-poo IPS monitors, they've got picture reproduction WAAAAAAY ahead of TN, they last longer and they have the correct response time and contrast ratio shown.

I didn't poo poo them. I said I couldn't conceive a reason to buy one. I won't be viewing my monitors from an awkward angle so viewing angle isn't an issue, an IPS with a decent response time is quite expensive, I may spend a lot of time in Photoshop, but I'm not producing print work, I'm producing stuff that's going to be seen by others with TN monitors. And then there's the fact that I want 3 of whatever monitor I get. I'd be looking at ~£900 for monitors? That's just too much, I'm sorry.

[Baleout]

I got a 22 inch (1920x1080) Hanns-G for £86 last month. No problems at all with it, except it might wobble if you don't have a sturdy desk.

[ynnaD]

Get dis

[Psychotic]

Get dis

Top o' the line, man.

[Aidan]

I would highly suggest this, if you're looking for something 120hz...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2410t.htm


*This picture is not mine..

BenQ XL2410T 120Hz 23.6" 1920 x 1080 monitor

TN, but color reproduction is AWESOME on it.

-120hz
-Great Color
-Non-Gloss Anti-glare screen (Which also provides better color reproduction)
-2ms response time
-rotate screen in landscape or porterate
-Tilt, Swivel, Pivot
-DVI (Dual link), VGA, HDMI
-3.5mm Audio Port
-Picture In Picture Mode.
-Comes with VGA, DVI-D cords

Depending on how hardcore of a gamer you are, the 120hz refresh rate makes a big difference. I've been using this monitor for quite a while, and I notice a difference when using a 60hz monitor afterward (they feel cheap and unresponsive, ghosting, etc.).



-and Jake, IPS IS NOT PRIMARILY FOR GAMING. The color is nice, but that's it. I would only consider buying one, once the price goes down, and the response time is better (also possibly 120hz rf rate). I've borrowed my father's IPS for quite a while, and I'd honestly sacrifice the color for better functionality. However, my dad does not play PC games, so he doesn't care entirely about gaming functionality.

[Tantalus]

-and Jake, IPS IS NOT PRIMARILY FOR GAMING. The color is nice, but that's it. I would only consider buying one, once the price goes down, and the response time is better (also possibly 120hz rf rate). I've borrowed my father's IPS for quite a while, and I'd honestly sacrifice the color for better functionality. However, my dad does not play PC games, so he doesn't care entirely about gaming functionality.

Okay, I was not responding out of risk of derailing the thread, but I am going to nip this in the bud right now.

Unless you're in the MLG or a 'pro-gamer', you will never notice/need a few extra milliseconds of input lag and response time.

They tout these monitor as 'ultimate gaming hardware', but the majority of it is marketing hype and distortion of figures; the same sort of tactics used by Alienware.

For example, my NEC IPS monitor has 8ms response time (the same as an LCD TV from a few years ago), except that's recorded black-to-white; for some reason manufacturers use black-to-white for IPS and grey-to-grey for TN monitors. Now, I don't know if this is me but an IPS just makes everything A LOT easier on the eyes, colours pop out more and words are much easier to read and games look A LOT better and are more enjoyable as a result (call me vain, but what is expensive GPU for exactly?)! To me, that's worth the trade-off of a few extra milliseconds; why not just wait for OLED and have 0.0000001ms black-to-white response time...or get an ol' CRT?

Ultimately, you're buying into an inferior product because you think you need it for gaming. At the level you play at, an IPS monitor does the exact same job, and actually makes the game a lot fucking better.



ANYWAYS, I've heard great things about Benq and Viewsonic, check them out.

I can also attest to TFTCentral as Aidan has linked, tests a lot of parameters and gives you calibration patches for the monitor you choose.

[Aidan]

-and Jake, IPS IS NOT PRIMARILY FOR GAMING. The color is nice, but that's it. I would only consider buying one, once the price goes down, and the response time is better (also possibly 120hz rf rate). I've borrowed my father's IPS for quite a while, and I'd honestly sacrifice the color for better functionality. However, my dad does not play PC games, so he doesn't care entirely about gaming functionality.

Okay, I was not responding out of risk of derailing the thread, but I am going to nip this in the bud right now.

Unless you're in the MLG or a 'pro-gamer', you will never notice/need a few extra milliseconds of input lag and response time.

They tout these monitor as 'ultimate gaming hardware', but the majority of it is marketing hype and distortion of figures; the same sort of tactics used by Alienware.

For example, my NEC IPS monitor has 8ms response time (the same as an LCD TV from a few years ago), except that's recorded black-to-white; for some reason manufacturers use black-to-white for IPS and grey-to-grey for TN monitors. Now, I don't know if this is me but an IPS just makes everything A LOT easier on the eyes, colours pop out more and words are much easier to read and games look A LOT better and are more enjoyable as a result (call me vain, but what is expensive GPU for exactly?)! To me, that's worth the trade-off of a few extra milliseconds; why not just wait for OLED and have 0.0000001ms black-to-white response time...or get an ol' CRT?

Ultimately, you're buying into an inferior product because you think you need it for gaming. At the level you play at, an IPS monitor does the exact same job, and actually makes the game a lot fucking better.



ANYWAYS, I've heard great things about Benq and Viewsonic, check them out.

I can also attest to TFTCentral as Aidan has linked, tests a lot of parameters and gives you calibration patches for the monitor you choose.

You have very good points about the response time. However, I'm more or less praising the refresh rate more than anything




While 3d may be a gimmick (that I accept). Refresh rate on it's own is NOT. Anything beyond ~240hz is pointless though.

[Tantalus]

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cine ... cks-646907

[Aidan]

One can't generalize refresh rates in to one category...


The problem with 60Hz monitors are ghosting, which 120hz+ do not have.

[Baleout]

The problem with 60Hz monitors are ghosting, which 120hz+ do not have.

Not true. Ghosting can be a result of other factors.

The IPS Dell Ultrasharp may be a 8ms monitor but in all honesty the reverse ghosting is quite small and it is still, overall, very responsive; meanwhile the 120hz 2ms BenQ monitor has such terrible overdrive that it is, by far, the worst monitor when it comes to motion performance despite being a professional gaming monitor endorsed by Counterstrike legends HeatoN and SpawN. It is even worse than the 12ms HP IPS monitor, which wasn’t intended for gaming at all.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=308280

Input lag, one part of calculating monitor latency, is the most important value concerning fast paced gaming (think Enemy Territory, Quake, Counterstrike) and not panel response speed.

Ghosting/blurring, the second part of monitor latency, is a relative non-issue since overdrive can remove most of the blurring, monitor panels are generally quite fast now, and AMD video cards can force overdrive should the monitor have none. You might still notice ghosting but a lot of people do not really mind it.

[Tantalus]

One can't generalize refresh rates in to one category...


The problem with 60Hz monitors are ghosting, which 120hz+ do not have.

Panel quality > Refresh Rate.



Welp. Bale beat me to it and was a lot better at doing so...


I'll be in the corner sobbing.

[Aidan]

Well thanks you two, this does make sense.


I do wonder what settings all monitors are on though. Although I'm going to assume they've optimized them for the best quality possible.

[Poor]

I managed to replace the capacitors. I was so bad and inexperienced at soldering that it took me an hour. The results were messy but it works. No more low-res CRT for me!

[Siva]

Well, shit.

I think I'm going to end up with an IPS.

I need to go somewhere and open Photoshop on a computer and look at the differences side by side. Do you think PC world would let me do that if I lie and say I'm looking to buy a monitor?

[Psychotic]

Well thanks you two, this does make sense.

I do wonder what settings all monitors are on though. Although I'm going to assume they've optimized them for the best quality possible.

To start with, yes, but monitors lose calibration as time goes on.

Specifically, if you're a designer, best practice is to re-calibrate your monitor every time you work, particularly for photography. You also want to do this if something in your work area changes, such as lightning. Monitors can be so sensitive that even bright clothing can put the calibration off, which sounds weird, I know.

I'd say most people don't do this, though, and if you're in a firm then you'd be hoping their monitors are calibrated automatically for the purpose (software can do this nowadays!). Mac's also have better colour support by default, apparently, which is why some designers prefer it (though I don't think this is worth using a Mac, which I don't like using).

[Dae]

An IPS monitor is a good choice if your budget allows that and you use your computer to produce graphics of any kind.

People praise them not only for color quality, but also viewing angle. This is very important! (Although it may seem otherwise). You see different colors on a TN monitor when you change your position or even turn your head. E.g. you see a white rectangle, you sit back — and now the rectangle is bright pink (or blueish). This doesn't happen with IPS monitors.

There are, however, good quality TN monitors where this effect is less noticeable, but it's still there.

In photo/film production and design industry they're an indisputable standard. At work, we even bring them on set. Personally I have been using them since 2004.

They're indeed slower when it comes to games, but the situation has slightly improved over time. (E.g. one of the best monitors in its kind on the market right now, Samsung SyncMaster S27A850D, uses Super PLS panel (a variation of IPS) with a 5ms response time).

best practice is to re-calibrate your monitor every time you work,

I believe LED backlit monitors don't have to be recalibrated that often. Generally noone calibrates them every day.

I'm not a spec but I haven't heard that software calibration is anywhere near as good as with a hardware calibrator.

[Psychotic]

I'm not a spec but I haven't heard that software calibration is anywhere near as good as with a hardware calibrator.

It isn't. I was always taught you want to recalibrate your monitor every time you're doing major work, but as I said, I doubt everyone does this and I agree that it's probably not necessary for most people.

The biggest issue with digital design isn't necessarily calibration on your own monitor, anyway. Having your own monitor calibrated is a nice thing to have but if everyone else's isn't calibrated properly as well then it can ultimately be a waste of time.

[Aidan]

It's odd though. Even with these facts, I can't help but notice a large difference in refresh rate with my monitor compared to most 60Hz :/

[Siva]

Should I go with triple landscape monitors or two 23" monitors rotated to portrait and a massive 27"/30" IPS in the middle?

[Aidan]

nonono... stack them on top of eachother in portrait. That way you can always see the sky in games.



VERY IMPORTANT.

[Aidan]

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4592/3/ ... fer-120-hz!

Seriously though. If you use a 120hz monitor for a long while you will notice a difference (I say a while because it takes time for the eyes to adjust).

[Siva]

new year, new pc. im goin for a 120hz this time

[Psychotic]

Is it really worth buying a new PC every year?

[Tantalus]

How you getting this monz?

[Siva]

Is it really worth buying a new PC every year?

No, I just seem to have a tragedy every april causing ne to kose my pc in some way.

As for the money - google 'devtome a culture of fear' and youll have an idea