eSports - Videogames as a spectator sport

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Postby James » Wed Nov 30, 11 3:44 pm

Q3
AVP2
Warcraft 3
DoTA
CSS
Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
TF2 (sorta)
COD4
Soul Calibur IV
L4D
Street Fighter 4
SC2
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Postby Professor Layton » Wed Nov 30, 11 4:26 pm

l4d??
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Postby ynnaD » Wed Nov 30, 11 4:30 pm

NETBATTLE
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Postby James » Wed Nov 30, 11 4:36 pm

we played once. it counts
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Postby Professor Layton » Wed Nov 30, 11 6:20 pm

It was competitive, but without any decent spectate option, how is it good for spectating?
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Postby James » Wed Nov 30, 11 6:22 pm

that question wasnt about esports, just comp
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Postby Professor Layton » Wed Nov 30, 11 7:18 pm

u r hurting esports with ur questions :(



I'VE PLAYED FEAR
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Postby James » Wed Nov 30, 11 7:38 pm

mate my objective is to kill esports
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Postby James » Thu Dec 01, 11 8:07 am

Oh man, CSS hate is at an all time high thanks to CSGO. CSGO has some flaws but people hoping it simply isn't CSS hahaha.

Point by DJWHEAT:
Multi-platform is the worst thing to happen to eSports. Owners of a platform will stick up for it and think it is the best. PC obviously the best platform no matter what almost 100% of the time, cited Halo CPL for example. That isn't biased, it is fact for everything but fighters.

Example brought up that the COD has the largest competitive community for 360 but the most prestigious tournament (MLG) is for the PS3. e.g. "i wanna play in mlg but all my boys are on xbox...fuck"
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Postby James » Thu Dec 15, 11 1:02 pm

FYI the above was for multi-platform and that only. I am still 100% open to platform-agnosticism/cross platform play.

I'm trying to bring the attention of footballers having a Fifa 12 tournament to the scene.
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Postby James » Thu Feb 23, 12 7:40 am

http://esportsbusiness.com/

Something I've also talked about.
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Postby Siva » Fri Feb 24, 12 4:10 am

James wrote:Soul Calibur IV


Yeah, until Hilde or anyone with any decent ring-out ability gets involved. Actually you know what fuck it that game is just terrible competitively
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Postby James » Fri Feb 24, 12 7:01 am

I didn't say games in that list were good for ccompetitiveness, but I'm one of those peolle who tries major installmwnts of games to check attachment.
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Postby James » Thu Mar 01, 12 6:14 pm

Has anyone ever played in a competitive gaming enviroment? Such as competitive online matches (tournaments, leagues etc), LAN, competitions, whatever.
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Postby ynnaD » Thu Mar 01, 12 7:28 pm

Well, i've played in a few LAN tournaments, even won once, it was only COD i played though, and it was just the local people, some amazing players though, i don't think it would be on the same level your refering to.
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Postby James » Fri Mar 02, 12 8:09 am

Anything.
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Postby Kaiden » Fri Mar 02, 12 9:22 am

I had a LAN centre near me for a while and they'd do stuff down there. The game was all colourful and you'd shoot nukes at other countries, and try and survive. I don't recall winning but I think I did ok!
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Postby ynnaD » Fri Mar 02, 12 10:17 am

Kaiden wrote:I had a LAN centre near me for a while and they'd do stuff down there. The game was all colourful and you'd shoot nukes at other countries, and try and survive. I don't recall winning but I think I did ok!


Crysis?
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Postby Aidan » Fri Mar 02, 12 5:36 pm

Other than clan tournaments in CSS, playing at a friends house, or winning a yo-yo tournament when I was 9, then no I can't say I've been in anything big.

Small - medium, yeah for sure.
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Postby Kaiden » Fri Mar 02, 12 6:04 pm

ynnaD wrote:
Kaiden wrote:I had a LAN centre near me for a while and they'd do stuff down there. The game was all colourful and you'd shoot nukes at other countries, and try and survive. I don't recall winning but I think I did ok!


Crysis?


Nope, uh, Defcon it was called.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TfETZiFxq8

Actually quite fun with like 10 people as different countries.
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Postby James » Sat Mar 03, 12 7:46 pm

Yes, I recognise Defcon. Cool I didn't realise they had tournaments for it some time, unless it was just for fun?

Currently getting some news from the MIT Sports Conf. eSports special summit, interesting facts but the $21 fee for this information (business) is mindblowing.
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Postby Siva » Sun Mar 04, 12 5:19 am

Just going to chime in on the whole SFxT Cross Assault blowup that has happened

Aris is aris and nothing is going to change that, he has no idea how to publicly defend himself and came out with the dumbest arguments I have ever seen, but if you want to call him a bigot or a sexist then you obviously haven't seen him fall in love with KayoPolice (Who is a transgender and loved by the community)

Ricky Ortiz? Openly a faggot. Occasionally shat on for it.

That's just the way the FGC is, and it's why I've been watching those streams through all the poverty times (which still exist today) because the entire FGC community isn't held up by massive sponsors or people like Capcom, it's held up by the god damn FGC community

So don't act surprised when someone gets poked fun at a little, she reacted in a dumb manner by just cracking up and feeding him more, if it was annoying her she should have walked up to him and said 'Yo I'm trying to practice, cut that shit out' and Aris would have stopped

It's nothing new that the FGC doesn't want our fucking community to turn into Starcraft because to us that ISN'T HYPE, when we all start shouting RAPE PHOENIX RAPE PHOENIX it's because we fucking HATE PHOENIX. In conclusion, Yoooooooooooooo ESPORTS
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Postby James » Sun Mar 04, 12 8:13 am

I love this article on it:
http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to ... the-drama/

It sums up every community out there, there's no real difference from the actual audience of either game.

Just like real sport, the mainstream news (videogaming without interest in the competitive scene in this case) has caught wind of the Aris drama, it makes the entire thing look more bad than it is and it not only affects the FGC as it makes everyone in eSports look bad to the mainstream too.

What annoys me is that Aris' apology is ridiculous and is very reluctant to blame himself. Aris actually believes FGC wouldn't be the FGC without sexist commentary, and then citing 'eSports' as a dumb comparison of something boring. More below, but in general of what I've noticed with SRK.

Protocol wrote:It's nothing new that the FGC doesn't want our fucking community to turn into Starcraft


I thought <s>FGC</s> SRK only keep throwing this back and forth because they're making money off monopolising <s>fighting</s> Capcom videogames. The pro scene seems indoctinated and very stagnant which concerns me a lot, for example the USA are very reluctant to try another partnership with MLG due to an early blunder with MLG Evo in 2005/2007 (forgot year). Though European events such as Dreamhack and ECL have adopted Capcom fighters and were a success with no quarms other than the lack of exposure to SF4 fans. Like all sports to eachother they're all different, but when it comes down to it there's not really that much difference from the SC and Capcom fighter scene.

Oh and the censorship is bullshit, all communities are as rowdy on different levels and there has been similar drama since the 1990s. Being 'censored' does not directly correlate with sexist, racist, or foul language on a live, professional broadcast.

too long; didn't read, SRK are making a lot of money with their premium annual hotel lobby. As a hub for the communities, it's kind of interesting to see how fast TeamliquidNet changed to a more professional site, but how long its taking SRK to do the same.

To end this here is a great article on the state of eSports, as of the beginning of 2012: http://uk.gamespot.com/features/the-sta ... 2-6350990/

Oh, and Ricky Ortiz is my waifu.
Last edited by James on Sun Mar 04, 12 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Siva » Sun Mar 04, 12 7:57 pm

The FGC is stagnant because it's built on fundamentally different ideas from that of other games. When you first walk into an arcade, and you get dominated people will be happy to tell you how bad you are. If you meet someone like me I'll probably offer to help you out and educate, but not everyone is the same.

Aris is an idiot, we can have the FGC without sexism. I for one love to see girls play, not because they're cute, it just means that the manchildren that make up the majority of the FGC are growing up enough to allow them to play. When Aris pulls shit like this it sets us back, every time.

That said, Aris again, is Aris. Capcom knew what they were getting into when they hired someone like him and are probably happy this whole thing blew up, because it means more views. Capcom don't support the FGC, if they did then we'd have less people staying up on weeknights to win tiny pots and more real tournaments supported by others than the core FGC members. Hell -- Madcatz supports the FGC more than Capcom do and that says a lot.

When we say we don't want our community to turn into starcraft we don't mean that we are entirely different, I speak for myself at least when I say I don't want our players sitting in glass boxes while they play the game, I don't want it to just become about the money. I cannot think of one person who plays fightan gaems just to earn cash. We do it because we love the damn games.

If the FGC never gets bigger than it is today I will be happy. If it grows I will be happy. But if outside people influence it to become something that it is not I will never go to a tournament again, and that is what people like that idiot Patrick at Giantbomb seem to want.
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Postby James » Mon Mar 05, 12 9:31 am

It is entirely true that CAPCOM do not care much beyond the divisions who recently announced the year of cash inkection for SFXT. They supported SOPA at first which would've killed the pro scene. Ha.

On the subject of cash injections I find them okay in moderation but Riot and Valve are inflating their games in effort to establish pro scene is quite unhealthy.
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Postby James » Tue Mar 06, 12 1:18 am

From PC Gamer
For the first time, the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference on Saturday played host to a panel on eSports to discuss what they are, why they are enjoying such a tremendous period of growth, and what the future holds for them. Developer, team owner, caster, and league manager were represented by Blizzard’s Mike Morhaime, Evil Geniuses‘ Alex Garfield, Sean “Day[9]” Plott, and the MLG’s Sundance DiGiovanni, respectively. As Plott put it, “The numbers are becoming astoundingly big,” and the proliferation of streaming technology alongside the rise of StarCraft 2 promises to change eSports indelibly.

“[The MLG is] ten years old,” DiGiovanni said. “The people who know our organization, they have a strong attachment to a number of titles that we’ve run in the past. But we’ve never been in a position where we had the right title, the right technology, and a global audience base at the same time. Now we do.”

2011 was a major year for eSports and perhaps a sign that some things have irrevocably changed. Plott was seeing 30 percent month over month growth in viewership, Twitch.tv launched and quickly hit 14 million unique visitors a month, and Garfield’s Evil Geniuses team sold one thousand growth in sales of its team shirts. It’s a major change from earlier in eSports history, Garfield said, when sponsorship was the only viable revenue for teams and players.

Livestreaming technology might be the biggest factor in the explosive growth in eSports right now, but the other piece of the puzzle is StarCraft 2. It has some unique features that make it particularly well-suited to this medium and this moment.

“One thing that’s unique about StarCraft 2,” Garfield said, “both as a sport and as a videogame, is that the observing perspective is very similar, if not identical, to the playing perspective. And there have been various games and developers that have been eSport titles, take for example a game like Counter-Strike…Imagine what it’s like to try and spectate that as a casual observer. You have 10 different first-person viewpoints to keep track of, and then an overview of the map, and they’re all running around, but the problem is that the entertainment value is actually in seeing those reflex shots. And people tried over and over again to find a way to make that easily enjoyable, and it just wasn’t. So when you have a game like SC2, where it’s made to be observed and it’s easy to understand…that’s very very valuable.”

Morhaime sees StarCraft’s appeal as being very similar to that of poker (an analogy that several panelists drew during the discussion). “You actually, as an observer, get to see all the information,” Morhaime said. “Get to see what both players are seeing, and they don’t get to see that. And the whole asymmetry of information that you have in poker, where you know a guy is ahead by 80 percent versus this other guy’s 20—they don’t know that, and they have to sort of make guesses about each other and what strategies they’re going to use—creates a lot of tension as the game plays out.”

Growing pains lie ahead. Business models and metrics remain fluid and murky, and some aspects of the eSports business are just plain strange.

Plott talked about the incredible sense of ownership that the eSports community has toward its hobby and the people who make it possible. Unlike a traditional media “consumer-provider” relationship, eSports fans tend to act with a strong sense of partnership. For instance, while he asks for a $5 donation fee to Day9 Daily, he is consistently surprised by how his community responds to what amounts to passing the hat. “I say things like, ‘Guys, this is a way for the show to remain free. You have no obligation to do it. And I’m going to try and not run that many commercials.’ And we’re flooded with emails, thousands of emails of people saying, ‘You should run more commercials! You should run 15 commercials every hour! ‘Cause that way there’s more money.’ And it’s insane, that sort of feedback from the community.”

Things are little harder for team owners and tournament organizers, who are dealing in a space that nobody quite understands or can quantify. Garfield explained, “As a team owner, I can’t really do basic math about my business. I can’t say that for every dollar I spend on salary on this player and sending him to the next tournament, I know that I’m going to get two dollars in re-sellable value back that I can give in exchange for sponsors. And that’s kind of how a team is supposed to make money.”

Still, these are issues that will likely be solved with more time and more communication among stakeholders. At the moment, eSports is evolving as it becomes more and more successful, and the business models will change to reflect that. Major League Gaming CEO Sundance DiGiovanni says the MLG’s Winter Arena experiment was so successful that it is possible they will hold up to twelve more pay-per-view Arena events this year. More importantly, however, he thinks that the MLG is building something that is sustainable.

“Yes it’s for the fans and the players for today, but even more so it’s for the kids who are 12 years old today,” he said. “Because they’re going to grow up and…when they’re sixteen, for example, they’re at a point where they can say, ‘Mom, Dad, I want to go to this tournament.’ They’ll understand the rules. They’ll be able to identify the sidelines. They’ll know what’s in play and what’s out of play, and what’s a good play. Because they will have grown up with it.”
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Postby Psychotic » Wed Mar 07, 12 2:19 am

Professor Layton wrote:I never really understood how people liked to spectate FPS games. I don't really find it interesting to watch people play and shoot eachother like that. There's usually not a lot going on other than the moment they got eachother in sight.


The only FPS demoes I've ever watched were for DXMP, back when I was trying to get better. Helped to an extent (learning a few strats and such) but nothing beats actually playing (and having friends who can teach/show you stuff in-game).

I feel the same for virtually any eSports, especially any type of RTS or RPG. RPGs are worse (especially any MMO) because you're essentially just watching someone sit there and smash a few buttons for 5-10 minutes.

If you're trying to learn a new strategy for whatever you're doing then sure, a video is a pretty good way to learn it. But other than that? Blegh.
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Postby ynnaD » Wed Mar 07, 12 10:41 am

I used to watch videos about COD shamefully, was a fair while ago now, but with all the shit Machinima spams on Youtube, it's hard not to venture into one of those videos at least some stage.
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Postby James » Thu Mar 08, 12 6:04 pm

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Postby James » Wed Mar 14, 12 10:13 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIjSN6XPsq8[/youtube]
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