nVidia Fermi vs. ATi Radeon HD 5xxx

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Postby clyzm » Sat Apr 24, 10 4:00 pm

Fermi actually beat the 5870 in some benchmarks but whatever. Plus all the ATI fanboys will be like "but is gonna be more expensive!!!!!!111" while the 480 and 470 came out at prices lower than the 5870, on launch. lol
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Postby DxPlayer » Sat Apr 24, 10 5:08 pm

clyzm wrote:Fermi actually beat the 5870 in some benchmarks but whatever. Plus all the ATI fanboys will be like "but is gonna be more expensive!!!!!!111" while the 480 and 470 came out at prices lower than the 5870, on launch. lol


But it doesn't beat HD 5970. Fermi is a new release and it's the best Nvidia card for now.

ATi has this new Radeon and the newest Nvidia card doesn't get close to it in the benchmarks. It's 5870 vs Fermi and there's no Nvidia's equivalent for 5970.

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And Fermi eats too much energy.

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Postby clyzm » Sat Apr 24, 10 7:36 pm

DxPlayer wrote:
clyzm wrote:Fermi actually beat the 5870 in some benchmarks but whatever. Plus all the ATI fanboys will be like "but is gonna be more expensive!!!!!!111" while the 480 and 470 came out at prices lower than the 5870, on launch. lol


But it doesn't beat HD 5970. Fermi is a new release and it's the best Nvidia card for now.

ATi has this new Radeon and the newest Nvidia card doesn't get close to it in the benchmarks. It's 5870 vs Fermi and there's no Nvidia's equivalent for 5970.

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And Fermi eats too much energy.

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5970 is a dual card. Nvidia is coming out with a dual edition of the 470 which is intended to rival this card.

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As for the energy consumption, well shit, have a better power supply. 4870 x2 alone has more power consumption than Fermi, what does that say for the 5970?
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Postby DxPlayer » Sat Apr 24, 10 7:59 pm

Hope the energy consumption is not going to be x2 too. Hehe..

Oh well, by now ATi has the lead and Radeons are doing really fine in those bench marks, I'm sure my next VGA will be an ATi 5xxx, it certainly has a better cost vs. benefit. :D
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Postby clyzm » Sat Apr 24, 10 8:01 pm

Again, the GTX 4xx came out cheaper than the 5xxx series, and the cost-benefit is much much greater, but whatever, enjoy shoddy drivers lol.
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Postby Siva » Sun Apr 25, 10 4:40 pm

Price/power ratio means 480 is not as good as it should be

If money is no object then you just buy 11 GTX 480s
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Postby DxPlayer » Sun Apr 25, 10 5:44 pm

clyzm wrote:enjoy shoddy drivers lol.


clyzm wrote:I'm getting a lot of bluescreens at random times in Fallout 3 and Dragon Age. Anyone else have them, and if so, any problems similar to this? I had to rollback the drivers twice now.


This. o.O
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Postby clyzm » Sun Apr 25, 10 5:58 pm

DxPlayer wrote:
clyzm wrote:enjoy shoddy drivers lol.


clyzm wrote:I'm getting a lot of bluescreens at random times in Fallout 3 and Dragon Age. Anyone else have them, and if so, any problems similar to this? I had to rollback the drivers twice now.


This. o.O


Was a hardware issue and not drivers, but thank you for digging through my posts to find that. Means a lot :smt050
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Postby -TheSpecialist- » Tue Apr 27, 10 4:21 am

I thought it was expected that the new 480 series would be faster.

Either way the cards on both sides perform well from a consumer point of view.
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Postby Tantalus » Tue Apr 27, 10 6:34 pm

Protocol wrote:Price/power ratio means 480 is not as good as it should be

If money is no object then you just buy 11 GTX 480s
Yes, but ATI have always been ahead on that front. IE, for people who just give up/aren't decadent nerds.

But seriously, ATI have dented Nvidia like never before with their line of 5 series cards. Affordable, green GPU's that are as near-as-makes-no-difference the same as Nvidia's 400.
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Postby DxPlayer » Wed Apr 28, 10 4:37 pm

clyzm wrote:Again, the GTX 4xx came out cheaper than the 5xxx series, and the cost-benefit is much much greater, but whatever, enjoy shoddy drivers lol.


A Radeon 5970 is cheaper than a 480 and it has much more power, like you said, it's a dual card, and consumes less energy than a Fermi. How comes buying a Geforce 480 is more cost-benefit?

And about the shoddy drivers, I remember a recent Nvidia's WHQL Driver that messed up the things with overclocked cards, also, I own a GeForce 6200 and I used to get lots of BSODs, after two years rebooting the pc because of BSODs about Nv4_disp.dll Ive just found out that if I don't touch the default drivers settings the problem is just solved. It means I can't really use the driver's features, and if you Google for Nv4_disp u will see lots of ppls posting about this in lots of forums (including the official Nvidia's one), and no one seems to have a real solution.
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Postby Dae » Wed Apr 28, 10 6:16 pm

Console discussion has been split into a separate topic.
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Postby James » Wed Apr 28, 10 6:18 pm

DxPlayer wrote:Oh well, by now ATi has the lead


lmao please, that's like saying the PS3 is a videogame console JUST SO YOU YOURSELF DON'T SIDE TRACK IT DEFENDING YOUR USB PORTS:

it may be doing better in YOUR opinion in comparisons of both company's GPUs but it isn't doing better than Nvidia for profit.
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Postby DxPlayer » Wed Apr 28, 10 6:33 pm

So show me something, like a VGA that is better than 5970, that proves I'm wrong. I'm talking about GPUs.
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Postby clyzm » Wed Apr 28, 10 6:51 pm

A Radeon 5970 is cheaper than a 480


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it has much more power, like you said, it's a dual card, and consumes less energy


>has more power
>consumes less energy

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How comes buying a Geforce 480 is more cost-benefit?


It is cheaper and performs better than the 5870. I think I have mentioned this probably three times by now? I lost count.

And about the shoddy drivers, I remember a recent Nvidia's WHQL Driver blah blah blah.


Just google ATI catalyst driver problem or something to that effect. There are hundreds of unsolved driver issues. The difference is, nVidia actually fixes them (maybe you haven't tried upgrading your drivers or something lol)

So show me something, like a VGA that is better than 5970, that proves I'm wrong. I'm talking about GPUs.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814133253

The reason nVidia are doing better than ATI consistently in terms of sales is because they can make reliable products that have good drivers. This is especially the case for workstation cards, of which nVidia seems to have dominated the market.
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Postby DxPlayer » Wed Apr 28, 10 7:30 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/XFX-HD-597A-CNB9-Ra ... 806wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-HD-5970- ... 711wt_1165

clyzm wrote:
>has more power
>consumes less energy

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Oh man show me something that proves I'm wrong. :D

It is cheaper and performs better than the 5870. I think I have mentioned this probably three times by now? I lost count.


That's what you think. 5870 beats 480 in some games AND benchmarks, like Crysis.

Just google ATI catalyst driver problem or something to that effect. There are hundreds of unsolved driver issues. The difference is, nVidia actually fixes them (maybe you haven't tried upgrading your drivers or something lol).


Actually I tested Forcewares from 80 to 190, try Google for what I told ya too. And if you read the Forcewares release notes you will see lots of not fixed problems that comes from Forcewares like 160 and are still in 190.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133253


Man, seriously, I'm talking about GPUs for gaming, not professional graphics cards, for that ATI has the FirePro series.

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100407/ati-fir ... hics-card/
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Postby James » Wed Apr 28, 10 7:33 pm

DxPlayer wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/XFX-HD-597A-CNB9-Radeon-HD-5970-Black-Edition-2GB-/230466640062?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item35a8e1d8be#ht_806wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-HD-5970- ... 711wt_1165


Both of them are more expensive lmao

also >BIDDING
>EBAY

Just admit your fucking defeat instead of wasting everyone's fucking time.
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Postby clyzm » Wed Apr 28, 10 7:47 pm

Oh man show me something that proves I'm wrong.


Is English your first language? Do you realize you contradicted yourself with that last statement? "Uses less energy, but has more power" can you not realize that % of energy used is dependent on % of power consumed?

That's what you think. 5870 beats 480 in some games AND benchmarks, like Crysis.


Do people still seriously use Crysis as a testing ground for benchmarks? It is proven that Crysis prefers ATI cards over nVidia cards (1) and that the reason for card's difficulty with Crysis is its poor optimization (2).

Did you just completely ignore my benchmark post (probably also all my other posts)? It's not something I think, it's something I know.

Actually I tested Forcewares from 80 to 190, try Google for what I told ya too. And if you read the Forcewares release notes you will see lots of not fixed problems that comes from Forcewares like 160 and are still in 190.


Strangely enough the rest of the nVidia owners seem to disagree with you on the shoddy drivers issue pertaining to that specific component. It seems to me all you did was use Windows to browse through the driver folders and find an arbitrary part that has nothing to do with the BSODs you are receiving.

Man, seriously, I'm talking about GPUs for gaming, not professional graphics cards, for that ATI has the FirePro series.


You said the best "card" period. 5970 is two 5870s. If you want a single-card performance/ratio and not Crossfired dual GPUs, then look at the 480 which is currently in the lead for that market.

Honestly you're comparing two cards to one card and saying SEE I TOLD YOU in terms of performance.

Man seriously, I would recommend you pay more attention to other people's posts in the future.
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Postby -TheSpecialist- » Wed Apr 28, 10 8:41 pm

Not to bust your bubble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If0Bkfnifi4

I'm sorry but if you are claiming ATI has shoddy drivers you are mistaken. And if there are issues they are fixed on a month to month basis; nothing earth shattering that affects real world game play.
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Postby clyzm » Wed Apr 28, 10 8:44 pm

I'm sorry but if you are claiming ATI has shoddy drivers you are mistaken. And if there are issues they are fixed on a month to month basis; nothing earth shattering that affects real world game play.


Catalyst has been shown to crash almost arbitrarily with Windows 7, even with the latest edition of ATI drivers. Of course it's not earth shattering but it's almost a curse with ATI products to make great video cards but mediocre drivers.
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Postby James » Wed Apr 28, 10 8:48 pm

Yeah you cannot deny Catalyst being dodgy half the time, so far its been alright but fuck my ass when a new game is released I can't even run it stable for like 2 months

see BC2
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Postby Tantalus » Wed Apr 28, 10 9:54 pm

clyzm wrote:Is English your first language? Do you realize you contradicted yourself with that last statement? "Uses less energy, but has more power" can you not realize that % of energy used is dependent on % of power consumed?
I'm pretty sure he means "the ATI is more powerful, yet consumes less energy" which is bullshit in itself.

And using such vague terms such as "has more power" shows you know fuck-all about the subject and JUST LIEK TEH COLOR RED.
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Postby Professor Layton » Wed Apr 28, 10 9:58 pm

I remember a couple of years ago where my catalyst wouldn't work because ATi decided not to tell me I needed some shitty .net framework installed for it :( When I did get it to work it randomly kept crashing.

Had an nvidia before it and after it (5200 and 8600) never really had problems with the drivers.

Can't judge about the current ATi drivers though.
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Postby clyzm » Wed Apr 28, 10 10:16 pm

I'm pretty sure he means "the ATI is more powerful, yet consumes less energy" which is bullshit in itself.


It's still a question of physics. The more energy consumed, the more power generated. There is no magical object that can use less energy but create more power than something that uses more energy and creates less power.
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Postby DxPlayer » Wed Apr 28, 10 10:51 pm

clyzm wrote:
Is English your first language? Do you realize you contradicted yourself with that last statement? "Uses less energy, but has more power" can you not realize that % of energy used is dependent on % of power consumed?


No, it's not my first language. When I wrote "power" I meant rendering power, and it's not directly related to the % of electricity consumed.

Did you just completely ignore my benchmark post (probably also all my other posts)? It's not something I think, it's something I know.


I did read ur posts. However, if Crysis "prefers" ATi's card why did I got an email from Nvidia with a Crysis's character recommending a 8800 Geforce Triple SLI to play the game?

Strangely enough the rest of the nVidia owners seem to disagree with you on the shoddy drivers issue pertaining to that specific component. It seems to me all you did was use Windows to browse through the driver folders and find an arbitrary part that has nothing to do with the BSODs you are receiving.


It seems like you didn't really "googled" it. I spent a great time searching for a fix in the internet. I also contacted Microsoft's and Nvidia's technical support about the problem and consulted specialized forums too.

You said the best "card" period. 5970 is two 5870s. If you want a single-card performance/ratio and not Crossfired dual GPUs, then look at the 480 which is currently in the lead for that market.


Isn't it cheaper then? You can buy "2" graphic cards for the price of 1! Idk if you know the concept of Crossfire but it's not what u have just wrote there.

Man seriously, I would recommend you pay more attention to other people's posts in the future.


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Postby Tantalus » Wed Apr 28, 10 10:53 pm

5970 is joined by Crossfire. ADDA-HERPA-DURR!!
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Postby clyzm » Wed Apr 28, 10 11:08 pm

No, it's not my first language. When I wrote "power" I meant rendering power, and it's not directly related to the % of electricity consumed.


So what you're saying is, the 5970 (two cards in crossfire) can render scenes utilizing more power than the gtx 480 (one card) while simultaneously using less energy? Do you realize the gross inaccuracy of this statement? If it uses less energy, where does the energy of the power consumed by the 480 go? Vacuum of space?

I did read ur posts. However, if Crysis "prefers" ATi's card why did I got an email from Nvidia with a Crysis's character recommending a 8800 Geforce Triple SLI to play the game?


... yes, because Nvidia wants you to buy Nvidia products and not ATI products. That's totally ridiculous! You're totally right! Oh wait no, you're completely wrong, it's called marketing.

It seems like you didn't really "googled" it. I spent a great time searching for a fix in the internet. I also contacted Microsoft's and Nvidia's technical support about the problem and consulted specialized forums too.


And it seems to me you completely ignored my point. Try rereading my posts again.

Isn't it cheaper then? You can buy "2" graphic cards for the price of 1! Idk if you know the concept of Crossfire but it's not what u have just wrote there.



Do you understand the concept of using two cards in a single GPU? Do you understand companies such as ATI do this because it prevents them from experiencing shortage of graphics cards? Do you understand companies will deliberately make them a little bit cheaper than buying the two cards separate because of marketing? Do you understand my original point which was to prove you wrong on the 5970 being cheaper than the GTX 480, which I clearly did? Do you understand you are trying to weasel out of the predicament? Do you understand you are failing?

I will quote myself once more, in case you did not read the first time (I am pretty sure you didn't.)

Man seriously, I would recommend you pay more attention to other people's posts in the future.
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Postby -TheSpecialist- » Thu Apr 29, 10 12:29 am

The 5970 is a "single card" dual gpu design.

All the trusted review sites even say that:

480 is the fastest single gpu card, while the 5970 is fastest card with dual gpus.

From I've seen the 480 at load consumes more power(wattage) from the wall than the 5970 while performing slower than it in a multitude of benchmarks.

Edit: if AMD drops the prices of their cards I am pretty sure the best value would go to them, although they do have 5850 doing well at the moment; the 470 doesn't look to shabby either.
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Postby clyzm » Thu Apr 29, 10 12:55 am

I can admit the 470/480 consumes more power and generates more heat than it should, this is true, but it doesn't mean it performs poorly compared to 5xxx series. Nvidia will probably come up with a different GPU cooler design or release a 485 or something anyways.
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Postby -TheSpecialist- » Thu Apr 29, 10 4:50 am

The only thing I want both companies to do is scale back on power requirements.

Many people, myself included don't want to have to upgrade a perfectly good PSU in the 600-700 watt range just to power cards that are marginally faster than the previous generations top tier card.
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