Something that has been grinding my gears for years

[James]

*Spits out coffee*

HOLD IT
If a game isn't balanced, surely in tournaments we should just remove every unbalanced thing from the game

Happens in all good games, your joke aside.

[Hanover Fist]

I haven't read this whole page, so any good arguments need to be quoted for me.

I've found a few quotes worth arguing, though.

ATDM though leaves no chance to newbies

It's a gametype aimed at experienced players. Hence the name Advanced Team DM. Newbies earn their wings playing BTDM. Personally, I think most newbies fail at MP because they don't play through the single player first to at least get a gist of wtf they're about to play.

ATDM = completely fair

if games were completely fair then their would be no point in fucking the turkey

For the first quote, I disagree. It's not biased, but it's not completely fair. No online game or gametype is. But that's a matter of connection and comp performance etc etc.

For the second quote, I also disagree because there are games that are completely fair (latency issues aside). Such as provided by this quote:

Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress 2, Deus Ex 0-Aug

Whoever said this clearly hasn't played most of these games. However, Team fortress 2 is a great game that is perfectly balanced. I mean, this game is meticulously fair. UT, Quake, has the same debates as DX. To say those games are fair then say ATDM isn't is a contradiction.

DX non augs is just biased toward ping. The whole object of winning in that mod is having the best performing machine or connection in the server to win. I remember always seeing non auggies who thought they were the best, who scored tops in non aug servers, wouldn't even aim and get kills. Largely due to the fact non aug games are hosted with full skills. Which is retarded.

[James]

Team fortress 2 is a great game that is perfectly balanced.

STOPPED

FUCKING

READING

[Hanover Fist]

Explain how it's unbalanced.

[James]

Writing this at the speed of light

It's full of strong imbalances which is countered by playing the exact same as the other players, much of these are the current shit storms about weapons such as the Huntsman, FaN and Sandman. The Backburner last year also gave Pyro 50 health and broke the game too and I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about every unbalanced thing I can think about the game but the fact is, it's open to you without it being rewarded. Same with 0 Aug, you choose the set ups, in Unreal and Quake 3 you find the weapons.

In CS and ADTM you have to kill to be overpowered and the non-streakers need to be forced into a stupid metagame to disable the killstreakers. Other than that, nothing wrong with your post you just took my post very wrong.

edit: replace CS' comparison with money and how people have to eco reserve to get the fire power required to beat them

[Hanover Fist]

ATDM is meant for the most experienced players. Players who can improvise and figure out ways to fuck up a streaker in a way they know best and whatever they're best at. Advanced indicates that it is meant to be a challenge.

I've seen good players go back and fourth in ATDM as if it were BTDM. There's a way to play ADM and there's a way to play Basic. Basic requires less thinking, more innate in game skill. ATDM demands the player to be a bit more wily then just being able to mechanically domineer with a weapon.

[Hanover Fist]

edit: replace CS' comparison with money and how people have to eco reserve to get the fire power required to beat them

That hasn't been an issue for years. If I figured a percentage out of my ass right now, I'd say about 80% of CS server are hosted with $16k to start so that you always have more than enough money for ammo, a primary, and even a replacement secondary and even have enough left over for armor/helmet and four grenades.

[James]

It is more of a juggernaut gametype than a fair competitive standard, you must admit?

That hasn't been an issue for years. If I figured a percentage out of my ass right now, I'd say about 80% of CS server are hosted with $16k to start so that you always have more than enough money for ammo, a primary, and even a replacement secondary and even have enough left over for armor/helmet and four grenades.

Competitive servers still use basic settings, if I had it my way it'll be infinite money and 1 flash/frag grenade + smoke grenade which quite a few servers actually do!

[Hanover Fist]

It is more of a juggernaut gametype than a fair competitive standard, you must admit?

If the wrong people are playing it, that is to say, those who haven't got the gist or even desire and enthusiasm to play Advanced TDM. Tbh, threads like this wouldn't exist if therer were just more servers of every gametype, so that players who don't like a certain gametype don't have to play it if they want a game since ATDM is the only thing available.

There are aspects of ATDM that make it a legitimate Team DM gametype. I've played ATDM games like this. It's really an experience oriented gametype. If you have people that play ATDM exclusively or simply just have a really good comprehension of it and all of you are in a team and the same goes for the opposing team, you have yourself a good game.

Just remember that gametypes are not just there to add variety to a game, although that is a primary reason, but there is also the consideration that some players have preference for certain gametypes than others and that's why there are options.

Competitive servers still use basic settings, if I had it my way it'll be infinite money and 1 flash/frag grenade + smoke grenade which quite a few servers actually do!

Use your filters on Steam and you can find 16k to start servers. If you don't mind playing the pubs that is.

[James]

I really dont like how you went around and went off on a tangent.

[Hanover Fist]

When I sober up tomorrow I'll try and decipher it.

[Zondartul]

I, personally, love 2-aug servers with 0 aug/kill, on custom maps.

[Mastakilla]

find a LAW and with a pretty good chance chance you'll end him

Sure. In Smuggler aswell.
[/sarcasm]

[Hanover Fist]

In Smuggler just grab the free lam and throw it at a fire barrel when the streaker's going for bio at the tollbooth.

[Dae]

Smuggler is small thus more dynamic. It's easier to kill enemies in small rooms, in hallways, harder to dodge the LAMs as Reclaimer said above.

[Mastakilla]

Guess you never heard of energy shield then.

[Hanover Fist]

Energy shield defends against splash damage of lams mostly. If you frag a barrel, you could have the Pope's blessing and you'll still get explosionated.

[Mastakilla]

Most likely, although using a medkit on time of explosion can still make you survive a blast, apparently.

That aside, even though it takes skill to play this gametype properly, recharging energy at the right times (not letting your bio drain, cause you'll be fucked.) etc. But as James said, it's kind of a juggernaut gametype. I reckon killing someone with +3 streak should give you 3 kills, or something.

Admit it, say you play yourself, one has 0 kills and only 2 augs, the other has all augs. Which one of you will most likely win?

[Hanover Fist]

Back when I played, when I was actually good, it wasn't a problem. To play ATDM all you have to do is have an understanding of the game. It looks like it would be a juggernaut gametype, but if you've had the games that I've had, you'd see that team effort is a must and therefor makes it flow like a steady game. Which it is.


The main grief I' seeing toward the gametype is that it "forces" you to use a specific tactic or tactics to end a streaker. But if you look at it in that way, you have to realize that all areas of DXMP have that requirement present. BTDM the least so. But if in generally any gametype if someone

- Uses combat str and thw knives and is streaking up. Use plasma, since combat str replaces energy sheild.

- Uses power recirc and is streaked up and has like every aug and his bio is draining slowly take him out with a lam or DTS.

- Uses spydrone, then GEP him since that aug replaces ADS.

And if you want to go even further down the line. Non augs does it too. Non augs precludes use of anything other than rifles. Not to mention it discourages proper aiming and participation by anyone who has anything higher than a 120ms latency.

In conclusion, there isn't a gametype in DXMP that doesn't somehow encourage a specific change of tactic. James infers this is a form of the game raping you, making you play a way you may not want to play. I say, the only way you can have a good time, is to play ball and let the game stick it in you.

[James]

"Is to be choked a feature or tedious?"

My ideals are the same as most ideals standard to sports which ADTM is unable to re-create. I need not explain myself because I don't see footballers getting a third leg to assist out of nowhere if they score. There's no room for tangents.

i've been waiting to say the third leg thing for like a month

[Hanover Fist]

The MVP "streak" up on steroids and painkillers. Mang.

[James]

Performance enhancing drugs don't need to beat up the other players to use them.

[Hanover Fist]

But they always seem to. And the only way you can defeat the pill popping streakers is to change your strategy, and come at them with a urine test etc.

[James]

WHAT IS GOING ON

[MainMan]

I think you need a urine test jay