iPad

[Alex]

Bamboo is an input tool for computers, like a mouse
iPad is a handheld PC for those who don't want a laptop

Bamboo is a graphic design tablet, the bare essential (core idea) of the entire concept behind the tablet. iPad is a large tablet with a touch screen, and features of a small PC. iPad has drawing capabilities similar to Bamboo.

Uh, no. It's not per se for graphic design. I have one on my work. I don't design things, I code things. iPad is not similar to Bamboo at all, really.

[clyzm]

Bamboo is an input tool for computers, like a mouse
iPad is a handheld PC for those who don't want a laptop

Bamboo is a graphic design tablet, the bare essential (core idea) of the entire concept behind the tablet. iPad is a large tablet with a touch screen, and features of a small PC. iPad has drawing capabilities similar to Bamboo.

Uh, no. It's not per se for graphic design. I have one on my work. I don't design things, I code things. iPad is not similar to Bamboo at all, really.

We are comparing wagons to trucks here. Out of, I would say, 10 or so people that use Apple products in business, you can pretty much bet at least half of them use it for design or some sort of artistic medium. iPad will more than likely be deployed by workstations that utilize graphic tablets such as artistic firms or design companies, more so than workstations that do, for example, motion graphics.

Wait a minute - you say you have an iPad at work? Don't those things come out March or something, lol?

[Alex]

Bamboo is an input tool for computers, like a mouse
iPad is a handheld PC for those who don't want a laptop

Bamboo is a graphic design tablet, the bare essential (core idea) of the entire concept behind the tablet. iPad is a large tablet with a touch screen, and features of a small PC. iPad has drawing capabilities similar to Bamboo.

Uh, no. It's not per se for graphic design. I have one on my work. I don't design things, I code things. iPad is not similar to Bamboo at all, really.

We are comparing wagons to trucks here. Out of, I would say, 10 or so people that use Apple products in business, you can pretty much bet at least half of them use it for design or some sort of artistic medium. iPad will more than likely be deployed by workstations that utilize graphic tablets such as artistic firms or design companies, more so than workstations that do, for example, motion graphics.

Wait a minute - you say you have an iPad at work? Don't those things come out March or something, lol?

I have a Bamboo at work. To replace my mouse. We got 1 mac on work. Old piece of shit. Why? Because we need it to transform Apple-format files to windows-format. For the rest, we don't use Apple products. I don't think iPad will be accurate enough to be used for graphic design. Bamboo is specialized in it, with years of experience. iPad is just a touchscreen, not particularly made to be used for design.

[James]

Dae are you going to keep arguing about software or are you going to read the first post lol?

Nice lame retorts

My point is: professionals do use Macs. That's all I'm talking about. That is exactly what Jay is refuting.

No professionals worth noting as proven.

It's like a white pen, if you understand why I keep saying this it will come to you it's the greatest argument used against any Mac product.

[clyzm]

I have a Bamboo at work. To replace my mouse. We got 1 mac on work. Old piece of shit. Why? Because we need it to transform Apple-format files to windows-format. For the rest, we don't use Apple products. I don't think iPad will be accurate enough to be used for graphic design. Bamboo is specialized in it, with years of experience. iPad is just a touchscreen, not particularly made to be used for design.

Fair enough.

[Dae]

Dae are you going to keep arguing about software or are you going to read the first post lol?

Which is it? This?

it isn't used that much other than home or personal use.

That's what is my software argument related to. If Mac is not used that much for professional work, how do software companies cover their expenses on porting and supporting their professional applications?

>$2,199

http://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduc ... 6883147088

Same specs, half the price. Add $349 for a 27" monitor. That leaves about $500 or so that Apple leaves unaccounted for. What's put into that pile of junk that is worth an extra $500?

You wouldn't compare a PC with a laptop, and say "Wow, that laptop is so overpriced!", why do you compare an all-in-one with a tower PC then? Hardware-wise all-in-ones are basically laptops with a giant (for a laptop) screen. They're much thinner and designed to produce less heat, just like the laptops, since they're supposed to be placed on the desk and not below.

Besides that, does that $349 monitor have LED backlighting and an IPS matrix? These are essential features of it.

multi-tasking being made much easier

That's an argument from like early 90s. (AFAIK Mac pionereed multitasking but it was later introduced in Windows as well).

[Alex]

Dae is right about the screen thing: A good monitor is required. Using regular TN panels (which you, the reader, are most likely using) for design things is a no-go.

[Mr. Tastix]

That's an argument from like early 90s. (AFAIK Mac pionereed multitasking but it was later introduced in Windows as well).

My first point still stands, it's still a "anything you can do, I can do better" scenario. The main problem being that the Mac [i]can't[/b] do everything that Windows can and this applies vice versa to certain things, I'm sure.

Apple is a brand. I would never use the Mac as an everyday operating system, Windows has it's problems but it's increasingly flexible. Even most Linux distros are more flexible than the Mac. Boot Camp helps but it's easier to just use Windows simply because I can do whatever I need to do on a Mac.

iPod's are nice as well, decent quality from what I've heard but not necessary. I've used basic MP3 players for years, they're a good 5-8 times cheaper than that of the average iPod (here in NZ) and do everything I need then to do: play my music.

The iPhone isn't exactly "innovative" either, it just expands onto an already existing idea. We have PDAs and we have cellphones. The average person doesn't actually need both, I sure as hell don't, the people I know who have iPhones sure as hell don't need them. They have them purely for bragging rights.

You have an Apple branded product, good for you. I have something that has less features sure but it didn't break my goddamn bank to buy, nor is it bloated with useless crap.

[Dae]

I totally agree about choice/tastes/preferences, but that's not the point. You claim that Apple can't really make operating systems.

Even most Linux distros are more flexible than the Mac.

In what way? I agree that Mac OS X can be installed only on the Apple hardware, but what else?

Both Linux and Mac OS X are based on UNIX/POSIX, they have a lot in common. You can even run a GNOME on Mac, by the way.

bloated with useless crap.

What crap is Mac OS X bloated with? During 14 years of using Windows, I didn't trust it's unzipper, picture browser, disk burner, media player, screenshot maker, disk partition utility, font browser and other apps included with the system. In Mac OS X all of these programs are usable — not the best but very, very decent. At the same time, in Mac OS X you can easily uninstall every of the aforementioned programs to free up disk space and it won't break the system.

Pretty often I as well hear an argument that Mac doesn't support right clicking and that's why they won't ever like it. When I say that it does, people still don't believe me and keep repeating that it doesn't. Why? Obviously not because they can't look that up in Google, but merely because it's so much easier to believe that Mac is just trendy dandy shit not worth mentioning. People tend to optimize their thinking process with "templates". And repetative changes in those templates would eliminate the need in them, so it's like a self-defense of the system.

[Mr. Tastix]

I said that Apple branded products was bloated, I never specified what products.

[James]

I don't remember saying "it isn't used that much other than home or personal use..." as my first post. Nice retorts out of the ass a sign of a loser.

Fuck off Apple you're the worst hardware company ever stop making people fool for your attractive sleekness.

And you even agreed that

And Macs are generally overpriced, I would never argue that.

yet before hand still retorted that

Upd: oh, looks like even Claudio Sanchez of Coheed & Cambria is using a Mac. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 290677438# (see 0:55)

yet I remember posting that

it isn't used that much other than home or personal use

where it is that's Claudio's home in New Jersey and the video was filmed in their shed because Chonda and Claudio are horror buffs. That's what he personally owns and if you want to wow me with more personal tastes you may want to mention a more significant fact that The Prize Fighter Inferno - My Brother's Blood Machine was produced over 7 years with random devices one including that very Macbook. Which he recreated at home and for personal use and made some money out of Unrelated I should know more about that video us at Severedmyties (RIP) leaked it from Cobalt and Calcium. + lol at how desperate you were to find "(James' interests) the final cut"

n00b down..................

[Dae]

Pfff... I don't think I want to argue with you in such manner anymore.

[James]

I'm too busy using fine blue and black pens which in general use are better than the white one.

[Dae]

You're too busy repeating "nice retort" and that plain metaphor above.

[James]

While playing Mass Effect 2 great observations Daedalus.

[~SaSQuAtCH~]

Apple claims they wanted a device for regular, every-day use.
Every day use device could be a cell phone which you can buy for 10 fkin euros. And how much does this cost? This is a joke.

[-TheSpecialist-]

Dae as much as I think you enjoy and use Apple products, your subjectivity is clouding this discussion/rant. Don't get me wrong though, I have a couple Apple products (Touch 1st Gen, Nano 1st Gen) and have tinkered around with Macs in the past; they do have redeeming qualities.

I don't think this was meant to attack the current business that the people in California have, but the product which they unveiled.

[clyzm]

You wouldn't compare a PC with a laptop, and say "Wow, that laptop is so overpriced!", why do you compare an all-in-one with a tower PC then?

Have you ever heard of the ASUS W90 gaming series of laptops? They're not selling at newegg anymore but I've seen one with a Q9000 (quadcore), 4870 X2 Mobility graphics card, and 6GB of DDR3 RAM, with 500GB of space. For the same price as the Mac up there ($2,499).

That's an all in one feature right there. What are you going to use as an excuse now?

They're much thinner and designed to produce less heat, just like the laptops, since they're supposed to be placed on the desk and not below.

Right. Apple has to put $500 extra into their shabby products for... heat reduction. You should be able to recognize a poor investment right there (and the heat reduction factor is silly - my computer alone has better specs than that Mac I linked, and it has a very low average case temperature, which can run from 29c to 40c when I'm gaming. I only paid $800 for my computer. What does that Mac have over it? Portability. Nothing else.)

Besides that, does that $349 monitor have LED backlighting and an IPS matrix? These are essential features of it

Those are mere accessories and structural type. Does that Mac have the ability to dual-view screens for daytrading? The only important things, coming from my artistic design experience (take that however you will, I'm not claiming to be a good designer), in a monitor, are contrast ratio, resolution, and display colors. I doubt very heavily people will buy that Apple product simply because it has LED backlighting and an IPS matrix, when there are cheaper and more useful alternatives out there. I'm not saying those features should not make the product more expensive, I'm simply stating that the amount of expense for those features is too high in relation to its benefit.

In a way, it's like selling a computer case for $250 or similar extra, simply because it has 8 eSATA ports.

[Dae]

The only important things, coming from my artistic design experience (take that however you will, I'm not claiming to be a good designer), in a monitor, are contrast ratio, resolution, and display colors.

Afaik the amount of colors the monitor is capable of displaying heavily relies on display type.

Initial iterations of IPS technology were plagued with slow response time and a low contrast ratio but later evolutions have made marked improvements to these shortcomings. Because of its wide viewing angle and accurate color reproduction (with almost no off-angle color shift), IPS is widely employed in high-end monitors aimed at professional graphic artists, although with the recent fall in price it has been seen in the mainstream market too

(and it's not an Apple technology, no need to start bashing it now...)

LED gives even backlighting on the whole screen surface. Non-LED backlighting (not sure how to name it) might get darker in the corners of the screen. Additionally, LED doesn't fade out with time.

LED+IPS is a relatively new combo and such monitors are pretty much anticipated on the market.

Have you ever heard of the ASUS W90 gaming series of laptops? They're not selling at newegg anymore but I've seen one with a Q9000 (quadcore), 4870 X2 Mobility graphics card, and 6GB of DDR3 RAM, with 500GB of space. For the same price as the Mac up there ($2,499).

What about... a 27" LED backlit IPS screen? (I would readily accept your argument if you said MacBook Pro and not iMac ).

Also said, I dunno why do they sell that outdated 24" iMac by your link.

For $2,399:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... puter.html
Quadcore i7 Nehalem, 8GB DDR3, 1TB HDD etc.

[clyzm]

27" LED backlit IPS screen?

IIRC it had an 18.6" LCD screen. The Mac has that advantage over it, the monitor. What about the rest of the hardware? Graphics card, processor, space, RAM - the iMac cannot compare.

By your notion, I'm going to assume all Apple really wants to do is invest as much money as possible into one specific part of their systems instead of having a really balanced system with great RAM, video memory, and processor.

LED+IPS is a relatively new combo and such monitors are pretty much anticipated on the market.

I can pretty much guarantee you the cost of this combination outweighs the benefit. These features are barely noticeable when compared to a standard monitor. Unless a design company is heavily rich and trendy, they will most likely go with a standard 21" to 24" workstation monitor for their computers. Some offices can have dual monitor displays. These are more work efficient and provide more output than just one fancy monitor.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/657777-REG/Apple_Z0GF_0003_27_iMac_Desktop_Computer.html

I can almost guarantee you the Apple stores around here do not sell those kind of computers for that cheap. With those specs, one would have to shell out $3,099 or similar. I know from personal experience.

[clyzm]

Derek Ner Ner What I'm trying to tell you, for the third time: that 24" iMac for $2,400 is some sort of glitch on a site or something. It costs less even in Russia — while we normally pay x2 times more for Apple computers than the Americans.

Eugene I assure you, the cost of these computers is that absurdly high. It always has been - Apple is known more for it's low functionality, high appeal than anything else (Apple almost invented the whole minimalism approach in electronics.)

If you find it difficult to believe, purchase a ticket for Chicago and come to my house and I can show you the nearest Apple store and their obscenely high prices.

[Dae]

I can almost guarantee you the Apple stores around here do not sell those kind of computers for that cheap. With those specs, one would have to shell out $3,099 or similar. I know from personal experience.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB9 ... TM3NDc2NjA



I thought you could order it with free shipping in the US?

(Deleted my other post, I seem to have missed the last part of yours).

[James]

That iPad presentation had to be the worst thing I've even seen on on the Apple stage. There is a part where they - I am not making a joke - there is a part where they try to make creating spreadsheets seem awesome. Jilted may be the word. Of course, we're at the second wave of commentary now, the reflexive defense phase, but I've seen this practiced arc too many times to feel its pull. Apple didn't make a case for the device.

The end.

[clyzm]

I can almost guarantee you the Apple stores around here do not sell those kind of computers for that cheap. With those specs, one would have to shell out $3,099 or similar. I know from personal experience.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB9 ... TM3NDc2NjA



I thought you could order it with free shipping in the US?

(Deleted my other post, I seem to have missed the last part of yours).

I admit my defeat

[Mastakilla]

Apple is the only gayfash that wont get you laid